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What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC....

74.96.121.120

Posted on March 8, 2017 at 04:14:18
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
Interested in the Devore O/93 but trying to research some other speakers. Probably will be using a LM-518IA SET.

Not interested in Horns.

I have read and seen discussions about:

Tekton
Devore
ATC
Tannoy
Klipsch
???????

Any other companies I should be looking at?

 

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RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 8, 2017 at 06:43:26
jaydacus
Audiophile

Posts: 509
Joined: October 15, 2009
If you don't want horns then cross Klipsch off of your list since that is what they are known for.

Everything else on your list is outrageously more expensive than the Tektons.

You may have read that I just got the Tekton Lores. I want to spend some more time with them before I write a full review, but so far I like them more than the Klipsch Cornwall 3's. I have owned about half a dozen Klipsch models and they all had the ability to produce some really great sound as well as terrible harsh sound that made me want to cover my ears. Often within the same album. IMHO the Tekton Lores offer that "live" sound without the harsh stuff.




 

There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 8, 2017 at 07:09:33
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 4249
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 27, 2012
1. Compression horn, e.g., Tannoy, Klipsch.

2. Honky horn, e.g., Fostex, Lowther.

You want the first kind.

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 8, 2017 at 07:49:08
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9702
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
True on two.

How about ALTEC and GPA on (1) ?????, or maybe ONLY those two for (1). JBL ?? Maybe. KLANGFILM WW2, yes but unobtainium !! ALTEC and latest GPA is nice.

Jeff Medwin


 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 8, 2017 at 08:06:50
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
That list are ones I have seen, not what I am considering.

I am looking for a list of speakers I may have missed to consider.

Not a Klipsch fan, but had them listed as ones I know of.

 

Yes, that's why I used e.g. rather than i.e., posted on March 8, 2017 at 08:15:17
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 4249
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 27, 2012
JBL is a compression horn AFAIK.

 

Sonist, posted on March 8, 2017 at 08:40:19
jec01
Audiophile

Posts: 1261
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Joined: September 22, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 27, 2015
http://sonistaudio.com/

Happy listening,

Jim

"The passage of my life is measured out in shirts."
- Brian Eno

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 8, 2017 at 10:43:20
D Mike
Audiophile

Posts: 115
Location: Michigan
Joined: October 24, 2005
How about Audio Note?

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 8, 2017 at 11:20:46
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 4719
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
January 14, 2010
I have Lowthers. They don't honk
Alan

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 8, 2017 at 11:21:54
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 4719
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
January 14, 2010
The Devores are wonderful speakers.
Alan

 

Dynaudio. nt, posted on March 8, 2017 at 11:23:19
Inmate51
Audiophile

Posts: 8744
Joined: July 6, 2005

 

Thanks so far for the suggestions..., posted on March 8, 2017 at 16:34:29
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
Keep those ideas coming... :)

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 8, 2017 at 16:48:23
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 12026
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
Lowther makes horns?

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 8, 2017 at 17:33:12
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 4719
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
Contributor
  Since:
January 14, 2010
Here
Alan

 

Zu Audio, posted on March 8, 2017 at 19:28:34
Sebrof
Audiophile

Posts: 567
Location: AusTX
Joined: July 12, 2002
They have a few different models, great customer service, made in USA

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 8, 2017 at 19:54:57
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 12026
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
I understand now.

Using a Lowther as a driver for a horn.


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 8, 2017 at 23:08:21
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 10097
Joined: August 8, 2001

Above my new AN E/Spx Alnico Hemp speakers


The Audio Note E is fairly obvious - I run the Line Magnetic 219IA on my E.

You've listed Klipsch which are horns.

You have to be really careful with some speakers that are seemingly SET friendly and those that are not. The AN E only needs 7 watts but the Sensitivity is only 94-98dB depending on which version you get and whether you put them in the corners. But they're very easy to drive. ATC is typically not and neither is Harbeth or Dynaudio or B&W etc

OTOH you may see a speaker that has 103dB sensitivity but has an impedance characteristic that is very difficult for SET amplifiers so while the speaker may ultimately play "louder" with the same watts the bass may sound like crap because the impedance dips to 2 ohms or something and the amp will run out of gas and it will sound flabby. Tannoy for instance isn't the easiest speaker brand to drive.

Further with may horns they tend to shout - the treble is sensitive the bass unit is not and it sounds out of whack. You gotta spend a lot on Horns and you need a lot of space - if you have both they to me are the ultimate.

For normal environments the likes of the AN E to me are best in this class - with Tannoy and a few others but they also tend to cost a lot more and have few finish options to keep the wife happy.

You can read my review of the AN E/Lx at dagogo and I compare them to some of the brands on your list.

You will be hard pressed to find a better loudspeaker for $5k that has the sound, the build fit and finish, the ease of drive, the resale value.

I bought my AN J/Spe in 2003 and sold them in 2016 for more more than I paid. Not bad - and the J isn't as popular as the E.

Now I did recently sell my AN E/Lx and went up the chain to buy Audio Note's top of the line (non external crossover) AN E/Spx Alnico Hemp

It's the same speaker that Mastering Engineer Steve Hoffman is using. But the near entry level E/Lx is really nice and not too crazy on the pocket book.

Remember also that down the road your taste could change and you may like lower powered 300B or 2a3 amps better than the 845. If that happens then you have may have painted yourself into a corner with an ATC or Tannoy. 24 watts of SET and great LM iron can probably drive those but 7 watts of 300b won't.

The Devore is nice too but at more than double the price IMO it's not worth it.

If you have big bucks - also try the Trenner and Freidl RA and the Teresonic Ingenium - these two are both utterly fantastic sounding loudspeakers. Oh and Voxativ. If bass isn't critical - single drivers can be magic in the midrange. But it's difficult to live without bass, dynamics and treble extension. So the trade here for a touch better midrange coherence of the single drivers for a giant gain in bass depth and dynamic drive for the E or other big fat two ways previously mentioned. So you can play AC/DC at high levels and enjoy - not so much on single driver loudspeakers. Everything in speakers is accepting this or that weakness for this or that gain. A big horn is more sensitive and will have greater dynamic ease over the E or the Devore etc but they lack refinement and often bass and often cohesiveness from driver to driver. The single driver gives you the coherence but it at the expense of bass and dynamic drive. The E and speakers like it are kind of in the middle - they are better balanced but not attaining the ultimate at any one thing.

Here is my E/Lx review. There is a HE version which adds a few dB more sensitivity so you can run 3 watt amps. Assuming the room is not too big. Big rooms still need a 10ish+ watter.

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 9, 2017 at 00:45:26
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 5169
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
It is quite easy to have a honking compression horn, before CAD it used to be common too.

Just take some classic pepperpot Tannoys, remove the notch filter from the xover and honking abounds.

I didn't think Lowthers were particularly honky but they were particularly bad speakers in many other ways. To this day the worst speakers above $2k I've come across in well over 30 years.

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 00:56:46
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 5169
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
ATCs are completely unsuited for SETs.

Their sensitivity is about 85dB/1W and thus they require 100 clean watts as a minimum (ATC themselves use hundreds of Watts in their very much superior active models) but you are proposing what is effectively a 2W (1% THD) amp. Not a good match...

 

What are your musical objectives?, posted on March 9, 2017 at 01:43:27
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 466
Joined: December 25, 2014
What type of musical presentation do you like - what do you connect with in music? How large a listening spot would you like? How loud do you listen?

Why not horns?

91.

"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

You forgot the bargain speaker, AN AX-TWO nt, posted on March 9, 2017 at 02:26:13
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15121
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
nt

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 02:29:07
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15121
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
I liked the O93 more than the O96 on a Line Magnetic 300B power amp at RMAF a few years back.

 

RE:musical objectives, room, levels, etc.?, posted on March 9, 2017 at 05:05:57
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
What I listed for speakers are ones I have seen and may consider. Yes the Klipsch were horns (knew that) but they were hi eff so I listed them.

Room is 320 sq/ft and 2300 cu/ft in size. Partial basement so concrete all around 6' up the walls.

Listen to jazz, new age, folk, classical, etc. No head banging anymore. Not too much rock but still listen occasionally.

Volume listen high 70's low 80's most of the time. Do listen louder at times.

Heard many many different horn setups and they just do not do it for me.

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 05:07:52
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
Yep there is a dealer here in the area and I plan to check them out.

I have heard AN at shows and they were ok - so need to hear them in a better environment to hear a better showing of them.

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 05:30:07
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
Thanks for the detailed notes on AN Speaker.

As I replied to another inmate, there is an AN dealer in the area I plan to check out. Hearing AN at shows was just ok, so getting to a dealer will give me a better idea if my cup of tea of not.

Are AN speakers still recommended to be in the corners or close to walls? Or has that changed and placement is more forgiving?

 

RE: You forgot the bargain speaker, AN AX-TWO nt, posted on March 9, 2017 at 05:37:05
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 10097
Joined: August 8, 2001
But they are continuously sold out!

It's frustrating that I get e-mails about the AX Two - they ask dealers - none left. Even here in Hong Kong - nope. It's not good when you can't meet the demand because people go elsewhere. IMO the AX Two is the speaker you just have to be able to stock because in a real sense entry level products (regardless of maker) are the gateway drug. If you do a great job on that - you have a very very good chance of selling that customer on the next level up the food chain. Or at the very least they will be at the top of the audition list.

I think this is what the OTO Phono SE does so remarkably well - it is such a ridiculous bargain for build/sound/elegance at a not crazy price that when owners come into money - they look at M3/M6 and Quest/Empress or even Jinros.

I'd have mentioned the AX Two but at 90dB sensitive I feel I would get shouted down for it not being HE. Several years back I was shouted down that the AN E HE was not HE enough for this forum. I made the note that the E can pelt you with 5 watts and after all they partner them with 8 watt SETs all the time but they're not ultra HE (103dB sensitive 8 ohm min impedance kinds of speakers).

Even the LS-3/5a at 83dB is an easy load and could be argued is high Efficiency. 5 watts can drive those speakers fine too.

 

RE:93 vs 96, posted on March 9, 2017 at 05:52:55
DTB300
Audiophile

Posts: 490
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 28, 2004
I have never heard the 93 and the dealer only has the 96 now to demo.

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 08:20:08
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 10097
Joined: August 8, 2001
Here's the issue - if you put them in a corner the corner has to be a solid wall. Concrete or brick or you have to use a diffuser as in the link below. If your home is like most hotels which uses plaster (at shows very cheap vibrating walls) you will get proounced room boom. The walls sing along with the music. It's why Wes Philips of Stereophile and numerous other love AN speakers at shows like CES where the speakers were set up at the Flamingo - a concrete hotel and why they seem to do merely ok at shows where the walls are flimsy. But even in this Wes Philips article you can see the speakers are out from the walls and yet read his last two paragraphs.

http://www.stereophile.com/ces2009/ongaku_means_ecstasy/index.html#ZAUoBZiVshD4q8Ug.97

In these wooden structures - it makes sense to pull them out into the room. Here in Hong Kong - AN's biggest selling dealer - they have to have the speakers well out into the room and they sound great - just not "as" great as they would if they had good corner placement.

So if you have a wood home - I would simply use the "made" corners.

Lastly, if you ever listen to them at a show - play your own music. Unlike other exhibitors Audio Note plays music they like - not 6 elite recordings on continuous rotation over an entire show of music that makes the speaker sound good. Heck Magnepan chose wimpy recordings at low volume and no one gets to control the music or the level. Some rooms only play gentle female singers at a piano (Diana Krall and Norah Jones on continuous repeat). That's not the case with Audio Note who will play compressed pop to scratchy 30s recordings to Slipknott at stupid levels.

Of course now that I say that the video is of soft music - but there are copyright issues for these video reviewers so AC/DC is a no go.

My other suggestions though are still valid - not everyone is going to like the AN E - the dynamic ease of large horns may be far more attractive to your ears. I have heard the AN E sound very average at shows so I get where people come from when that's what they hear. It's like YG Acoustics which stunk at one show and then at another I felt they were one of the four best! So if a speaker can go from near worst to near best it pens your eyes. Hopefully your nearby dealer can demonstrate them well for you. And perhaps they have a good alternate if it doesn't go well.

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 09:35:51
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 12578
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
My listening room is paneled with one wall of cinderblocks with rebar inside. I use Ikea record shelves filled with records as a diffusor and it work quite well. I get a lot more base gain than in a regular wood and sheetrock room, so the subwoofer is set low in relation to the main speakers.

From his writing, I get the impression that Peter Qvortrup has excellent taste in classical music. I'd like to hear some of his record collection even more that his equipment.

Dave

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 9, 2017 at 17:32:22
Wojciech
Audiophile

Posts: 1094
Joined: June 23, 2009
Well , if one has a "wood house" its probably best to use regular 91db AN-e. The high efficiency version I would only use in fairly small , concrete built listening rooms. Otherwise you can kiss the Bass good bye. There is simply no free lunch. You either sacrifice size , efficiency or bass. Thankfully the OP has concrete basement so he is good to go with many "small" speakers .
I think hotel rooms used for audio shows have better acoustics than typical American cardboard house. In hotels , floor and ceiling are concrete slabs and commercial code requires thicker drywall/plaster for wall construction.
It's kind of ironic that so much of Euro speaker crap is sold on American market . For the interiors with totally different acoustics than those speakers were designed to work in.

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 9, 2017 at 20:06:09
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 389
Joined: February 2, 2001
I have to disagree with you about horns which honk. Among other horns I use DSPed Oris 150 horns driven by AER-MD3 drivers. I hear no honk.

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 9, 2017 at 22:24:04
belyin
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: New Orleans
Joined: November 1, 2003
I concur; I too use AER drivers with Oris 150 horns (with no DSP) and have never heard "honk." With Lowther drivers I heard plenty of "shout," but with the AER's I just hear music.

 

Qvortrup's collection., posted on March 10, 2017 at 02:12:00
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5012
Location: Ryedale
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
July 23, 2004
I was once invited around to Peter's for a demo, as local dealers in Sussex didn't have items on hand. His collection of music is, frankly, amazing. There's no mistaking his dedication to the cause and his support of high quality music reproduction in the home. Nice cup of tea, too.


Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 10, 2017 at 07:30:27
PranaBindu
Audiophile

Posts: 362
Location: Wyoming
Joined: April 17, 2002
I've owned both the 93's and the 96's. I loved them both, but the 96 is far more refined and friendly. The 93's had a sharpness to the extreme treble that made it hard to pair with amps/pre-amps. My wife has bat ears, and she found them unlistenable. I loved them, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of high frequency hearing. I could hear what she was objecting to, but it meant more detail to me.

I heard the 93's paired with the Sugden solid state integrated they're famous for, at RMAF, and it seemed like that pairing was perfect to address the sharpness to which I refer. It got me curious about solid state for the 96's, even though we don't find those speakers harsh in any way.

Every amp I've heard paired with the 96's sounded glorious: Ongaku, Berning, VTL. I've had them for almost 3 years now, and I'm still in love and discovering new details and depth in my music.

I could easily live with the 93's, especially with that Sugden amp. It would just take careful pairing. A Bottlehead BeePree was just too harsh. The WireWorld Eclipse 7 cables were harsh, compared to the Auditorium 23. The Musical Fidelity TriVista 800 sounded fantastic.
May the bridges we burn light our way....

 

RE: Qvortrup's collection., posted on March 10, 2017 at 08:21:50
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 12578
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
I am sure it would be interesting to meet him!

Dave

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 10, 2017 at 09:51:24
bare
Audiophile

Posts: 524
Joined: April 14, 2009
Remember also that down the road your taste could change and you may like lower powered 300B or 2a3 amps better than the 845. If that happens then you have may have painted yourself into a corner with an ATC or Tannoy. 24 watts of SET and great LM iron can probably drive those but 7 watts of 300b won't.

Clearly that's something you read about... NOT actually tried.
Real life differs from Mag Reviews.
PS: Tannoys work Just Fine.

 

RE: What others to research...Devore, Tannoy, ATC...., posted on March 10, 2017 at 22:27:08
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 10097
Joined: August 8, 2001
These are from Tannoy owners who claim their speakers needed more power. It's the same for the Reference 3a MM Dr Capo which aren't as easy to drive as claimed. But hey I always say try for yourself. Not everyone has the same volume bass requirements or the same room sizes. Some SET amps are also rather more powerful than others with the same watt rating.

 

RE: There are two different kinds of horn, posted on March 11, 2017 at 20:11:25
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 389
Joined: February 2, 2001
I remember once listening to a pair of Tannoy speakers with pepper pot HF horns, and in that room and with that system they honked like wild geese.

 

Kenrick Sound JBLs?, posted on March 22, 2017 at 01:57:14
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 5012
Location: Ryedale
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
July 23, 2004
They might suit your needs - and are to die for.

I'd love some of his 4343s in our new music room, which is quite large (25' x 18' x 12' - 450 sq ft or 5,400 cu ft). No idea how I'm going to fill it with sound right now.


Big J

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

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