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DSD(128) and higher resolution...

74.130.29.193
Posted on January 27, 2017 at 13:17:47
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I wonder why there are no digital players other than the TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder that can play DSD(128) or higher resolution DSD directly from a USB drive. I thought the new Oppo Sonica DAC would have that capability, but I now discover it will play only DSD(64) directly from a USB drive. It apparently can decode higher resolution DSD, but only if it is streamed from a computer or digital streamer. My TASCAM DA-3000 will play DSD(128) directly from a USB drive, but the highest capacity drive it will accept is 64-GB. My Oppo BDP-105D will play digital from large USB hard drives, but it is limited to a resolution of only DSD(64) even though its DAC can decode DSD(128) from a streamer.

I don't get it. I'm looking for a single component like my Oppo BDP-105D that will play DSD(128) from a high-capacity USB hard drive and display the contents on my HDTV. Why are all the Oppo components limited to DSD(64) from a hard drive? They can decode DSD(128), but not directly from a USB drive.

I'm frustrated because I want the same capability my TASCAM DA-3000 offers, but in a component that can access high-capacity hard drives and can use a large display. Until I find such a component at a reasonable price, I'm forced to use my TASCAM DA-3000 to play DSD(128) using multiple 64-GB flash drives while monitoring the albums from its very small display. For all other digital formats I use my BDP-105D, which I like very much. I just wish I could find one component that will do it all and sound as good as my TASCAM without costing any more than my Oppo. If any of you know of such a component, please let me know.

Thanks,
John Elison

 

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RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on January 27, 2017 at 13:54:24
HighEndWire
Audiophile

Posts: 1624
Joined: August 2, 2002

Per this https://www.oppodigital.com/sonica-dac/

"The USB DAC input supports PCM up to 768 kHz 32-bit and up to DSD512"

 

Computer with suitable S/W and DAC. (NT), posted on January 27, 2017 at 14:43:16
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

 

Exactly. Perhaps HQPlayer and a DAC -nt, posted on January 27, 2017 at 14:51:45
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 .

 

Thanks, Kal..., posted on January 27, 2017 at 15:32:14
John Elison
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Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 I'm aware of this option. In fact, I used to use a computer streamer but I much prefer a component like my Oppo BDP-105D or my TASCAM DA-3000. Actually, I greatly prefer using both of these with their inherent limitations compared to going back to a computer music streamer.

Thanks,
John Elison

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on January 27, 2017 at 15:43:40
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Again as John said it will play from a usb input only DSD(64)
Alan

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on January 27, 2017 at 16:20:37
Isaak J. Garvey
Industry Professional

Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA
Joined: January 7, 2016
 Bryston can.

 

Why?, posted on January 28, 2017 at 06:59:32
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 Since you acknowledge their limitations, why do you prefer them?

 

RE: Why?, posted on January 28, 2017 at 12:35:22
John Elison
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Location: Central Kentucky
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  Since: January 29, 2004
 I prefer the user interface of both the Oppo and TASCAM. Apparently the user interface is much more important to me than removing the slight limitations inherent in the two components. Another factor is that I own both components and I bought them for other reasons than digital music playback. I bought the Oppo because I needed a Blu-Ray disc player and Netflix streamer. I spend more time watching movies and streaming Netflix than I spend listening to music. Next, I bought the TASCAM DA-3000 specifically for recording vinyl. My Alesis Masterlink was old and obsolete whereas the TASCAM DA-3000 was much more convenient for transferring music files to my computer for mastering and storage. I only discovered its ability as a digital player after buying it and I found its sonic flavor more to my liking than any other DAC I had owned previously. In fact, I even bought a Stello U3 link so I could use the TASCAM as a USB DAC for my computer streamer but I prefer the user interface of the Oppo BDP-105D for playing music.

Consequently, I would like to find something like my Oppo BDP-105D to play all my digital music files including DSD(128) directly from a USB drive. If I can't, I prefer to continue with my present components and use my BDP-105D for everything digital except DSD(128) and switch to my TASCAM for DSD(128) only.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

To each his own., posted on January 28, 2017 at 13:42:32
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
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 I cannot tolerate the user interface on the Oppos. I prefer JRiver on a big screen or, if necessary, a small one.

 

RE: To each his own., posted on January 28, 2017 at 15:36:12
John Elison
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Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
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 Well, I never tried JRiver--only Foobar2000. What does JRiver do that Foobar2000 doesn't?

Anyway, I really don't want a computer user interface in my audio system. As you say: "To each his own."

 

RE: To each his own., posted on January 28, 2017 at 16:07:24
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 I used Foobar2000 only briefly a number of years ago and found it challenging to set up. For some reason, JRiver was more intuitive but equally capable. I cannot describe differences since I never compared them back-to-back and I tried them at different stages in the evolution of my experiences.

JRMC does not present a "computer user interface" although that is always available. I use a graphic interface with menu options. What I really like is the ability to do almost anything with almost any hardware including NAS, USB, HDD and numerous DACS, all with the same GUI.

 

Ayre Acoustics DX-5 might, posted on January 28, 2017 at 16:51:29
bullethead
 Email Ayre Acoustics, they would tell you, the DX-5 I am talking about, mention issue with oppo, not sure completely but I read the software might be similar, so check with Ayre.

 

Sony HAP Z1ES, posted on January 30, 2017 at 08:50:25
sjg
Audiophile

Posts: 738
Location: Boston
Joined: April 8, 2004
 Hi John, my friend has this DAC/player and I have spent lots of time listening to our LP transfers on his system. It has a 1TB internal HD, and via USB one can connect a large hd -- we have a 6tb USB drive on it. The user interface is excellent and it sounds best with 128 DSD files which it plays natively.

I'd place its sonic signature in between the Oppo 105 and the Tascam DA3000 - if that give you an idea.

It incorporates a computer/music server and a DAC. One loads music on it via network connection. Loading it up is its greatest flaw because this goes much more slowly than ideal. The database takes a while to update. Once loaded, it is lots of fun to use via table app. It has be 100% stable since we started using it and the user interface via ipad is excellent. I find it to be as good or better as JRiver Media Center.

Just a thought.

Best, Stephanie



 

Network Attached Storage , posted on January 30, 2017 at 09:15:42
sjg
Audiophile

Posts: 738
Location: Boston
Joined: April 8, 2004
 Here's another thought:

Perhaps moving from the USB hard drive/thumb drives to a Network Attached Storage device (NAS) would open up your options for 128 DSD playback on the new Oppos and/or other DSD 128 capable Dacs with a Ethernet/Music File player option.

I have all my music stored on a 12TB Western Digital NAS drive (WD MyCloud EX2 $600.00) and play music directly through Oppo 105 without any other computer or software.

It works the same as having a USB hd directly attached but it attaches via ethernet to your network and on the Oppo you select the Network option on the Home Menu and then navigate to the folder you want.

The Western Digital MyCloud NAS or MyCloud EX2 units are inexpensive and is v. easy to use and setup. (a single drive 6TB WD Mycloud sells for under $250 on Amazon). The Oppo 105 has no trouble finding it.

I control playback in the same way via the menu system with the TV on or via the Oppo Media control app.

It is too bad that the new Oppos are not offering easy native 128DSD playback.

cheers, Stephanie


 

RE: Sony HAP Z1ES, posted on January 30, 2017 at 12:17:29
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Thanks, Stephanie!

I'll check it out. It might be just what I need.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

I love mine, beats Mytek 192/DSD and Lampi Euforia by a mile!, posted on January 30, 2017 at 14:08:13
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I hope the Z2 isn't too far off...

 

RE: Sony HAP Z1ES, posted on January 31, 2017 at 13:24:12
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Hello John,

I tried to send a PM to you and it would not go through?
JA Fant Esq.
fantja@gmail.com

 

RE: Sony HAP Z1ES, posted on January 31, 2017 at 14:29:57
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Sorry! For some odd reason, the Asylum periodically changes my email preferences. I don't know why that happens, but I've changed it back to where anyone can send me email.

Thanks,
John Elison

 

RE: Sony HAP Z1ES, posted on January 31, 2017 at 15:35:33
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Much Thanks! John

PM sent.

 

RE: Sony HAP Z1ES, posted on January 31, 2017 at 18:24:07
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Thank You- John.

 

Do you upload wireless or wired? I finally chose wired connection for uploading, posted on February 1, 2017 at 07:53:54
jdaniel@jps.net
 I've got pretty fast internet but beaming downloads to the HAP was not only slow but often flawed, not because of the player but because of lost connections.

I'd sit down to listen and discover that the last few minutes of a track was missing, even after being "evaluated".

Wired uploading of a symphony takes about 2 minutes. Seems quick enough for me.

 

Flawed. That's why I sent mine back., posted on February 1, 2017 at 18:56:27
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have hardwired Gbit ethernet throughout my home but the Sony network port would negotiate to only 100 Mbit. It took forever to upload my music collection and it didn't go smoothly the first couple tries. So, take forever and multiply that by a few attempts.

Once I got my music there some of the cover art didn't match the albums and it was nearly impossible to delete dupes or make metadata edits from within the Sony App on my iPad. I admit I had an earlier version of the Sony but as far as I was concerned it wasn't ready for prime time.

The Sony sounds nice but it is far easier for me to manage my music library on my music server (all in one place) vs transferring it up to the Sony and keeping CD rips 'in sync'. I just use network streamers these days and don't have any 'transferring' to do. Everything resides on the music server which also acts as a NAS to the network streamers in our home.


 

Well, I wouldn't that far. Regarding wrong lp covers, I go to "edit track," click on wrong cover pic, , posted on February 1, 2017 at 20:08:57
jdaniel@jps.net
 click on "search for album art on web," and click on correct cover.

I didn't have any massive files to load before I got the thing.

 

wired connection, posted on February 2, 2017 at 04:55:10
sjg
Audiophile

Posts: 738
Location: Boston
Joined: April 8, 2004
 with a separate switch from laptop to Sony HAP Z1ES -- It goes slowly and sometimes the transfers fail. It is maddening but some folks need an all in one solution and don't want to use any stand alone computer.

Yes, some times the artwork does not get picked up but you can edit the metadata and re add the artwork via the Sony App -- which is an excellent feature.

My friend has the GraceNote info option turned off. After carefully tagging a big classical music collection the last thing you want is for Gracenote to foul it up.



 

RE: I love mine, beats Mytek 192/DSD and Lampi Euforia by a mile!, posted on February 3, 2017 at 16:36:35
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 1356
Location: New England
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I like the HAP-Z1ES so much I now have 2 of them, one for each system. I am very happy with them. They always work perfectly and never even a hiccup. I transferred 600gb of music from my computer to the Sony and all of the artwork was in the proper places. I did a wired connection and started it around 9pm. When I got up the next morning, everything was there.


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."


 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on February 7, 2017 at 14:49:52
CaliforniaBob
Audiophile

Posts: 92
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: June 2, 2004
 There's probably a confluence of technologies that need to
match or catch up to each other. The AKM4490 can "do" DSD256
but USB2 doesn't define how to do DSD. The mfg may be waiting
for some defined spec but meanwhile Tascam and others are
testing the waters with their DSD64.

An alternative path is to watch the Asian DAP market,
xduoo X10 uses the AKM4490 but with only optical output.

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on February 7, 2017 at 16:15:40
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 My TASCAM DA-3000 will play DSD(128) from USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 flash drives. That's how I play DSD(128) presently. Unfortunately, the TASCAM will not accept larger capacity drives than 64-GB and its tiny display is rather inconvenient. Moreover, its remote control is unusually limited in that it won't even switch between DSD albums---only between songs within an album. However, its BurrBrown PCM1795 DAC chip is as musically pleasing as any DAC I have heard, so I've been putting up with its other limitations until I find a player that accepts larger capacity drives.

Thanks,
John Elison

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on February 18, 2017 at 09:29:20
DewDude
Audiophile

Posts: 157
Joined: February 13, 2002
 I have to wonder if the limitations boil down to USB limitations.

DSD audio is not a low-bandwidth ordeal; a DSD64 2-channel presentation will consume somewhere around 5.6 mbps of bandwidth. A DSD128 2-channel presentation will consume 11.2mbps of bandwidth. While I realize that's well within the USB 2.0 speed specs....are these devices using USB 2.0 chips to read drives? If they are...are the devices even capable of actually doing so?

There's a lot of "what-ifs" when dealing with USB transfer from either thumb drives or external hard drives. Kind of like back in the old pre-USB2 days where the highest HD audio we had under USB 1.0 was 24/96 because 24/192 was just too stinking close to the theoretical maximum bandwidth of USB 1. I had an Onkyo AVR that would stream off a USB stick; my success in getting 24/192 to work off a stick depended largely on what stick I had...some could push that much data, some couldn't. Over the network..it worked flawlessly...it also had a gigabit of bandwidth behind it at that point.

I think the other thing is that DSD128 is just far too niche for most mainstream support. Maybe they wanted to save a few bucks and not use the controllers to actually get DSD128 to the thing. Maybe they're doing it all in software and don't have the processing power to push DSD128 down I2S....or however they're streaming it.

I'm willing to bet it's an accounting decision; save a few pennies by using slightly slower components because only a very small percentage of already niche users will be affected.

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on February 18, 2017 at 13:58:40
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > I have to wonder if the limitations boil down to USB limitations.

No! The way I currently play DSD(128) if from a USB flash drive plugged into the USB port on my TASCAM DA-3000. It works just fine! The only problem is that the USB port on my TASCAM is limited to 64-GB flash drives, maximum. I would like to simply plug in a large capacity USB hard drive instead of making a bunch of little 64-GB flash drives.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on February 18, 2017 at 17:27:27
DewDude
Audiophile

Posts: 157
Joined: February 13, 2002
 I went on to further explain that it's not a limitation of USB *itself*; but with whatever USB hardware they threw in the other devices.

I know USB2 is capable of doing DSD128 since my DAC does it. But the point I'm getting at is maybe they didn't put robust enough stuff in the other players in order to keep cost down.

 

RE: DSD(128) and higher resolution..., posted on February 18, 2017 at 17:59:34
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 23900
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Well, the TASCAM DA-3000 sells for $1000 and has one of the best sounding DACs I've heard to date. That's the main reason I'm putting up with its 64-GB limitation. I've listened to a number of much more expensive DACs and none have impressed me as much as the DAC in my TASCAM DA-3000.

What DAC do you own that allows you to connect a USB hard drive and play DSD(128) directly from the hard drive?

Thanks,
John Elison

 

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