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PS?! P.U.!!

108.46.135.250

Posted on July 10, 2021 at 13:55:41
rossini61
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Joined: August 2, 2013
Very unpleasant conversation with PS Audio yesterday:

Me: I am ready to purchase one of your (four-figure) power regenerators.
Can you possibly do something for me on price?

Sales rep: (Long **very intimidating** silence) We have a trade-in program.

Me: Thanks, but I don't really have anything to trade.

Sales rep: (**More silence**) Well, why don't you call us back when you do?

Me: (Purchases similar product/similar price from competitor).

When are hi-fi retailers going to learn that they work -- ahem -- retail (which means be nice to the customers), and that their customers have choice (which means be especially nice to the customers, and even more so when you're hawking expensive accessories)?

 

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RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 10, 2021 at 15:00:39
Davey
Audiophile

Posts: 2254
Joined: September 26, 2013
I don't know what's unpleasant about that.

You attempted to negotiate the price of a purchase.
The seller wasn't interested in negotiating.

Buyer is free to look elsewhere.
Seller is free to not alter their selling price.

Big deal.

Dave.

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 10, 2021 at 15:12:44
triodesteve
Audiophile

Posts: 772
Location: Walla Walla Washington
Joined: September 4, 2001
Good for them! I'm a manufacturer (not of audio) and I don't give discounts either. I don't want to cheapen my brand. My prices are beyond fair and if someone doesn't want to pay, I am not holding them hostage.
Your post is kind of whiney btw.

 

Any particular reason?, posted on July 10, 2021 at 18:09:42
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 6637
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
Are you an ongoing repeat customer? A manufacturer?
If they give you a discount, they're setting a precedent for others, may as well just lower the prices.
But they make fabulous products at a reasonable price. If you don't want it and they don't want to discount it for you, then go ahead and buy elsewhere, nothing to worry about...

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 10, 2021 at 18:14:35
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 38776
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
I don't see that as being a "very unpleasant conversation" unless someone was nasty and rude.... but it never hurts to ask for a discount. All they can say is no.

There was a time when PS Audio sold through dealers and the dealers would often discount the crap out of the brand. That was a couple years ago but those days are gone for several brands - PS Audio being one of them.

Their trade-in program is actually pretty good though. I had a very old Pioneer Elite CD player / burner that I had packed away for decades. It was pretty much worthless on the used market but PS Audio gave me several hundred dollars in trade based on the original MSRP of the Pioneer.... way more than I could hope to get selling it on Audiogon or eBay.

So if you have any items that were high MSRP back in the day and worthless today, PS Audio will still give you a nice trade-in credit.

P.S. If you're lucky you might still find a dealer selling off his inventory of PS Audio gear as PS Audio no longer maintains a dealer network. That gear would have been nicely discounted but with full factory warranty. I bought my PS Audio GainCell DAC/Pre that way... heavily discounted but new with factory warranty.


 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 10, 2021 at 19:34:16
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 35274
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
That was basically how I perceived it......

The rep was probably handling a large call volume on top of that.....

Struck me as "much ado about nothing".........

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 02:42:41
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1906
Joined: September 27, 2004
I'm certainly not a fan of PS Audio - far from it - but I think their attitude to your request was reasonable. It's up to you to consider whether yours was.

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 08:46:14
Goober58
Audiophile

Posts: 2754
Joined: November 15, 2016
Historically in the customer v. dealer/manufacturer rants I find myself less sympathetic to the customer than to the products/people they appear to be trying to smear. This one is no different.

If I can't get an item new for what I'm willing to pay usually with a bit of patience and effort I can find a demo, return or b-stock. But in general talking crap about people who can make things happen makes it less likely to happen.

And then there is always used.

Good luck.

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 08:50:58
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 7108
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
I'd be pissed too if that snotty rep had given me that reply when I asked for a discount. Nothing like waving money in their face and being told to fuck-off. There's far more polite ways to say no.

That would absolutely guarantee I'd never ever buy anything from them in future.

 

Interesting, posted on July 11, 2021 at 09:47:26
1973shovel
Audiophile

Posts: 9502
Location: Greenville SC
Joined: February 25, 2007
Assuming for a moment that the call went exactly as you describe it, then I agree that the sales rep could have been more tactful.

But one of your few other Asylum posts (you're listed as only posting 18 times), is also about you being irked by not receiving what you felt was a "proper" discount.

Is there a pattern here?



 

+1 Noticed that also! (nt), posted on July 11, 2021 at 09:57:12
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 2679
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
Contributor
  Since:
March 1, 2018
nt


"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."




 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 10:12:22
rossini61
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Joined: August 2, 2013
@sondek: Thank you.

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 10:13:27
Jim Treanor
Audiophile

Posts: 2133
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: June 1, 2003
Nailed it.

Jim

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 13:01:27
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 15878
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
May 16, 2021
I do think they were a bit arrogant in their response. With that said, they are an Arrogant Company. And there is far more to dislike than them not giving you a discount or responding with any respect.

I would never consider ANY of their products. The owner has made videos about the Raspberry Pi, which is filled with more misinformation than Qanon. And if you watch the videos, it is quite obvious that Paul M. has zero knowledge of a Raspberry Pi and what it can do.

I would not want ANY of their products in my system, even if the price were free!




 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 11, 2021 at 13:08:07
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 7108
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
Well, since you've opened this can of worms, I'll chime in and agree with every word you said. I too would never consider a PS product.

Always thought their products were significantly overpriced.

 

My experience has been different., posted on July 11, 2021 at 15:01:01
Todd A.
Audiophile

Posts: 1148
Location: Northern Wisconsin
Joined: July 30, 2013
Contributor
  Since:
December 0, 0000
I have a PS Audio Directstream Jr. that I'm exceedingly happy with. The Monarchy NM-24 that it replaced? Not so much. I sold the NM-24 for half of what I paid for it two years later and considered myself lucky. I'd never own another Monarchy product due to my experience with the company's owner, but I'm sure that there's someone out there that would chime in and tell me that I'm nuts to think that way.

To each his own.

 

I have no experience with the products..... Just his inaccurate videos.............nt, posted on July 11, 2021 at 15:33:26
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 15878
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
May 16, 2021
nt



 

RE: Thank you for the clarification. (nt), posted on July 11, 2021 at 16:05:38
Todd A.
Audiophile

Posts: 1148
Location: Northern Wisconsin
Joined: July 30, 2013
Contributor
  Since:
December 0, 0000

 

They make some pretty decent 'high value' products....., posted on July 12, 2021 at 06:19:27
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 38776
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002
...but you're right about Paul and some of his self-serving and misinformed 'wise ole grandpa' YouTube videos. Maybe he should stuff a Raspberry Pi streamer into a pretty case like Bryston does and sell more product rather than spreading misinformation that makes him look stupid. ;-)



 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 12, 2021 at 06:28:47
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 38776
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
February 2, 2002

According to rossini61, the rep never said fuck-off. The rep politely offered to take something in trade. There was a time when PS Audio gear was heavily discounted by dealers but not anymore. Since going to a direct sales only model, PS now offers a generous trade-in program.

I find them very pleasant to deal with. I recently traded a dusty old Pioneer CD burner (worth nothing on the open market) but got a pretty nice trade-in allowance from PS Audio.



 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 12, 2021 at 07:41:33
Sondek
Audiophile

Posts: 7108
Location: Fort Worth
Joined: May 17, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
April 5, 2002
Sorry Abe, but call us back when you have something to trade-in was just a slightly more polite way of saying fuck-off.

 

RE: PS, posted on July 12, 2021 at 07:47:48
Mike B.
Audiophile

Posts: 25555
Location: OR
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
September 1, 1999
They went to direct sales because some dealers were offering discounts. Unfortunately we are in a time when people think dickering is universally OK.
Did you pay full price for the unit you bought?


 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 12, 2021 at 09:37:18
Ozzy
Audiophile

Posts: 7331
Joined: September 21, 1999
What makes you more special than any of their other customers? Why should you get a discount over someone else? Or should everyone receive the same discount?

So according to your post, you bought another high dollar product from another manufacturer. Did they give you the discount you felt you "deserved"?

Somehow I don't think your original post went over the way you thought it would........


Oz







Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill

 

+1, posted on July 12, 2021 at 09:49:40
Chris from Lafayette
Bored Member

Posts: 21132
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012
I had a PS Audio integrated amp when Stan was still around, and then I bought another PS Audio integrated amp when they first came out with their class D line. I liked them both. However, my own audio experiences have since diverged quite sharply from Grandpa Paul's. He's another one of these folks who go ga-ga over DSD - and IMHO, DSD can be very fine, but PCM can be every bit (no pun intended!) as good, or even better!

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 12, 2021 at 14:58:45
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 2773
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
September 4, 2000
+1. Doesn't hurt to ask for a discount, but if one isn't offered, it wouldn't deter me from buying that product. IOW, I don't make buying decisions based on discounts. If the product I truly want is only offered at list price, I'll buy it. That said, I certainly wouldn't turn down an "open box" or demo if offered at a discount.

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 12, 2021 at 22:05:01
dandaroy
Audiophile

Posts: 471
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: June 24, 2003
True. It was a fuck off. It could have been dealt with better. Unless the OP said something that pissed the rep off.

I have a very modest PS Audio gear, not their expensive stuff. Their noise harvester is pure snake oil. It only harvests BS. Somehow that Paul M guy gives me the wrong vibes!

-------
I. Dandaroy

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 13, 2021 at 05:24:38
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1683
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
I agree with the above post.
As far as asking for discounts goes; Who pays full price for a car? I always try to negotiate better terms or pricing.
It's not unheard of for audio equipment to be on sale or offering some type of discount so why would PS be any different.
Once the vendor says no to lowering the price, you make your decision on the purchase.

 

Without a transcript of the call...., posted on July 13, 2021 at 07:57:14
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 43141
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
You really can't say that.

Might have been just a 'look around as see if you have anything you can offer as a trade in and call us back.'





 

Many people are paying above list price for cars, posted on July 13, 2021 at 08:59:37
viridian
Audiophile

Posts: 7126
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: May 26, 2005
Contributor
  Since:
February 1, 2012
The pandemic has changed the ratio of supply to demand in many product categories due to supply chain disruptions. The new normal is not the old normal. Article below:

 

Not to mention houses., posted on July 14, 2021 at 13:06:02
Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 2773
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
September 4, 2000
NT

 

This guy has PS audio inventory, posted on July 17, 2021 at 07:15:09
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1068
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
Precision audio video of Chicago

Former PS audio dealer and has some inventory.

He had a he P15 for five grand, he will come down from that, Plus He will take trades if you have any. He has a P3 for sale right now for $1400

He had a pair of Rel S3's for sale for $1200 apiece.

Called him and said they were sold, even though he still lists them occasionally.

He prefers phone calls versus an email chain. Albert is very helpful and a wheeler dealer.

I got a brand new REL S3 SHO for $1500, at the time the current model. MSRP was $2600

Even though he may not have it listed, does not mean he doesn't have one.

He lists PayPal but doesn't take it, have to send him a check.

I have a PS audio P5 power plant but I picked up Agon for $1700. I'll never go without one.

Definitely worth a phone call.

Good luck

 

RE: This guy has PS audio inventory, posted on July 17, 2021 at 09:25:10
rossini61
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Joined: August 2, 2013
I tried to contact Albert before my original post.

Still waiting for a reply.

 

RE: PS?! P.U.!!, posted on July 18, 2021 at 15:04:13
SteveM324
Audiophile

Posts: 157
Location: Michigan, USA
Joined: January 25, 2002
I agree that PS Audio's trade in policy is quite generous. Last week I traded in my 12 year old PS Audio Perfect Wave transport for $2300 off of their new PST SACD transport. I think I paid $2800 (about 30% off MSRP) for the PWT around 2009. At one time, I had two PWTs and PWDs. I sold one of the PWTs about 7-8 years ago for about $1500. The fact that I get $800 more than that 8 years later is a pretty good deal imo.

The woman I dealt with at PS Audio, I think her name was Joey, was very pleasant and courteous. I have 30 days to trial my new transport and if I don't keep it, they pay for return shipping. She said if I need more than 30 days to decide, that was not a problem. If I decide to keep it, I send them my old PWT in trade. They also give a 3 year warranty and pay shipping both ways if the product needs service within the warranty period.

 

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