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Classical CD That's "Demo" Quality (Partly) ......

68.104.247.26
Posted on October 29, 2020 at 23:35:01
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 The Franz Welser Most/Cleveland Schubert Symphony 9 "Great"/Krenek "Static and Ecstatic", recently released under the Cleveland Orchestra's own new label...... The Schubert, which is a nice and "un-finicky" performance, good enough to purchase the CD on its own merit...... (This is a rare performance which takes all the "repeats".) This performance was well-recorded, but had noticeable "limiting" at the loud end of the dynamic envelope.

The Krenek "Static and Ecstatic" struck me as being "bonus" material..... But this is the part of the CD which is truly audiophile "demonstration" quality..... (Didn't care much for the work, musically speaking..... A typical indistinguished modern composition.) But it's a sonic blockbuster, with strings, winds, brass, and percussion recorded with stunning "realism"...... A great test for instrumental timbre, transients, soundstage, resolution, and dynamic range. It was kind of reminiscent of some modern works I've experienced live at Severance Hall (albeit in a somewhat different acoustic space, I've never been to the "renovated" venue).....

The only caveat with this CD is the unusual (oversized) packaging, a "raised" rubber "button" that holds the CD in place in a "half pocket" could "scuff" the disc while it's being removed or put back in place. The disc also has over 77 minutes of music on it (violates commercial "Redbook" limit of 74 minutes), which means the disc is read by the laser to the very edge, fingerprints at the edge could cause the end of the disc to "skip". (I found this out the hard way.)

I can recommend this CD.... The Schubert for the music/performance, the Krenek for audiophile "demo" material.

 

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RE: Classical CD That's "Demo" Quality (Partly) ......, posted on October 31, 2020 at 19:51:43
immatthewj
 Mine is on the way.
But there is still one left.

 

Solti Wagner The Ring, all four, the Von Karajan set also. Nt, posted on October 31, 2020 at 05:11:31
geoffkait
 Nt

 

RE: Classical CD That's "Demo" Quality (Partly) ......, posted on October 30, 2020 at 20:11:48
SgreenP@MSN.com
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Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Romeo & Juliet.. Loren Mazel - Cleveland......amazing.....OOPS...I have the LP, don't know the CD version, but the performance and sound are wonderful

 

RE: Classical CD That's "Demo" Quality (Partly) ......, posted on October 31, 2020 at 11:21:02
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 2993
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
 The CD version is also great. No reason for it not to be.

 

The LP is a Great Recording..........., posted on October 30, 2020 at 23:17:52
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 This Telarc LP could be the best recording ever released by the Cleveland Orchestra...... Along with the Mussorgsky (Ravel/RK) Pictures/Night on Bald Mountain LP......

 

Maazel/Cleveland R&J is Decca/London, not Telarc, right? [nt], posted on October 31, 2020 at 01:30:07
Chris from Lafayette
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Nope..... It's Telarc......, posted on October 31, 2020 at 01:58:03
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000





 

Wrong Romeo (and Juliet)., posted on October 31, 2020 at 05:30:01
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 The referred-to great R&J from Maazel/Cleveland is by Prokofiev. Nothing special, imo, about the Tchaikovsky pair.

 

Krieger's Law of Probability........, posted on October 31, 2020 at 21:59:42
Todd Krieger
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Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 If you choose between two items, there is a 60 percent chance you'll pick the wrong one...... .... .............

I was aware of the Prokofiev "Romeo", never listened to it...... I just think the Telarc Tchaikovsky "Romeo" LP was one of the very best recordings ever produced.........

 

Ambiguity and inscrutability in posts do not help you. (NT)..................., posted on November 1, 2020 at 08:33:37
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002


 

I think Mr. Green needs to weigh in to tell us what he meant, posted on November 1, 2020 at 15:47:42
Chris from Lafayette
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 He talks about listening to "the LP" (singular), whereas the Maazel Prokofiev R&J would have been a multi-disc set? (Unless he was referring to the single disc of "highlights".)

Inscrutable indeed - but perhaps more on Mr. Green's part?

 

Right., posted on November 1, 2020 at 16:33:45
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 My presumption was the alternative to yours and, based on my feelings about the two, almost reflexive.

 

RE: Krieger's Law of Probability........, posted on October 31, 2020 at 22:18:08
rivervalley817
 yeah, divorce sux

take your vows again, it's romantic, and your lawyer can be the best man

last shot at a do over & prenup!

trick or treat!

be well,

 

RE: Wrong Romeo (and Juliet)., posted on October 31, 2020 at 09:48:40
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001

Got a couple of them.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Bingo!!! (NT), posted on October 31, 2020 at 10:37:20
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002



 

And... My system must suck..., posted on October 30, 2020 at 13:52:02
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Because the Krenek sounded AWFUL.

Nothing I could do to fix it. Tried toeing in the horns, tried toeing them out. Even a different amp.

Nothing helped.

Awful.

Maybe just the room?



First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Question......., posted on October 30, 2020 at 23:55:53
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 What was your source? I believe this could make a major difference on a recording like this.

I cannot count the recordings that I thought sounded really good on physical CD but never sounded quite right either streamed or played back as a music file.

 

Same source as the Schubert, which sounded grreat, posted on October 31, 2020 at 09:52:14
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
QOBUZ 24/96.

I'm blaming Krenek.


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Depends., posted on October 31, 2020 at 05:34:01
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 "I cannot count the recordings that I thought sounded really good on physical CD but never sounded quite right either streamed or played back as a music file."

It really depends on the source of the streamed/played back file. Many were botched but I have never been disappointed by any that I ripped myself. There will always be crap out there but one does not have to accept it.

 

RE: Question......., posted on October 31, 2020 at 04:27:38
Todd A.
 "I cannot count the recordings that I thought sounded really good on physical CD but never sounded quite right either streamed or played back as a music file."

I only recently encountered this after installing a Synergistic Research Phase 1 cable from the Cambridge transport to the Directstream Jr. Prior to that installation, I would have said they were pretty close. Now...not so much. For serious listening it appears that I'll be digging through the CD stacks again.

 

RE: And... My system must suck..., posted on October 30, 2020 at 14:50:04
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
You need a CD player ;-)


 

Reference Recordings CD are almost all great, posted on October 30, 2020 at 11:39:25
Feanor
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Posts: 9853
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 See their catalogue, below ...


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

Streams at CD Quality on Tidal, posted on October 30, 2020 at 07:12:59
AbeCollins
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Posts: 46280
Location: USA
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
But Roon found it at 24/96 'hi-res' in Qobuz.... so I selected that one. Shows brief artist bio and directed me to detailed PDF liner notes linked below. Sounds nice too, but Classical is not my thang.









 

you have to get used to that belly button in the middle with, posted on October 30, 2020 at 06:31:45
Story
Audiophile

Posts: 10426
Location: NJ
Joined: December 11, 2000
 the 4 grip outer assist dishes for lifting the disc out.

And curiously my Tchaikovsky 'the nutcracker' Kirov Orchestra has 1 hour, 20 minutes, 58 seconds and plays no problem on my Magnavox early CD player with CDT4 transport. Go ahead and laugh but it still works just fine and scans the disc in about 1 second.

And this disc gets a bit of Christmas playing time on my simple 2nd system.



 

Streams at 24/96 on QOBUZ..., posted on October 30, 2020 at 06:12:46
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Not yet listened to the Krenek but the Schubert sounded pretty darned good and I was not previously much of a fan Maestro 'Moist'.






First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Streams at 24/96 on QOBUZ..., posted on October 30, 2020 at 10:26:28
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 As a lot of you know, I've been overly critical of FWM personally..... His Schubert Nine is a performance that is better taken in as a whole, as opposed to the "strengths and weaknesses" of the work as it progresses...... This would be a great example for music appreciation classes, FWM let the work go on its own momentum..... Too many other performances fail, simply because the conductor put too much of a personal stamp on this work, and ends of being a "nice performance, but"..... This is easily the best performance FWM has released with the Cleveland Orchestra, on commercial recording.

 

Really? Have you heard the WM/Cleveland Prokofiev Third?, posted on October 30, 2020 at 10:54:51
Chris from Lafayette
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Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 That really has a personal stamp on it - although I'm undecided as to whether that's a good thing in this particular work! ;-)

 

RE: Really? Have you heard the WM/Cleveland Prokofiev Third?, posted on October 30, 2020 at 11:49:14
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 The Prokofiev Three is a work I'm not familiar with...... But I might check it out.

 

If you haven't heard the scherzo, you will not believe it! [nt] ;-), posted on October 30, 2020 at 14:11:10
Chris from Lafayette
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  Since: February 6, 2012

 

RE: If you haven't heard the scherzo, you will not believe it! [nt] ;-), posted on October 30, 2020 at 23:38:34
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 Too bad this comes in a 3 CD set for about $65..... And the rest of the music doesn't really interest me all that much..........

 

OK. OK. I love the Prokofiev 3., posted on October 30, 2020 at 19:31:17
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 I will try this tomorrow.

 

Hey - I'm trying to browbeat Todd - not you, Kal! ;-), posted on October 31, 2020 at 01:39:24
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26434
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 In any case, the WM/Cleveland is an interesting recording, but I suspect that since it's only a two-channel offering, you might prefer (as I do) one of the MCh offerings of this work, such as this new one on BIS:



And, Todd - you know I'd never try to browbeat you! ;-)

 

Agreed., posted on October 31, 2020 at 05:27:45
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 The new Litton and the Gaffigan are much preferred although I still keep coming back to the Abbado/LSO on Decca.

Welser-Most pulls the the Scherzo like taffy and the preceding Adagio is almost dead.

 

What one of the reviews said about the Welser-Most Scherzo (and I agree). . . , posted on October 31, 2020 at 10:58:49
Chris from Lafayette
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Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 . . . is that he suppresses the creepy portamenti in the strings (instead of bringing them out, as most conductors do) - to me, it's an interesting take on this movement. My main disappointment with the WM recording lies with the engineering, which IMHO is slightly veiled compared with Litton and Gaffigan. (I don't know if I still have my old Abbado recording!) Another good two-channel one is the Gergiev/LSO on Warner - I also have Gergiev's blu-ray video done in-concert with his St. Petersburg forces, which I've come to feel is a bit synthetic sounding, with too many microphones, although it IS great to hear "Seven, They are Seven" and "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution" in surround! In fact, I may crank up "Seven, They are Seven" for the trick or treaters when (or if!) they come around tonight - that'll show 'em not to come around next year!

 

RE: What one of the reviews said about the Welser-Most Scherzo (and I agree). . . , posted on October 31, 2020 at 21:51:18
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 Welser Most has struck me as a conductor who does things "auto pilot"...... If the music has depth do it (modern Russian composers like Prokofiev, Shostakovich), FWM usually fails to capture it.....

The "auto pilot" on the other hand worked very nicely with the Schubert Nine........ (Although the one part that had "depth", the middle portion of the Third Movement, was the weak part of the performance. But otherwise did really well.)

 

Haven't heard the Schubert yet - will try to listen soon! [nt], posted on November 1, 2020 at 01:01:14
Chris from Lafayette
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