Digital Drive

Upsamplers, DACs, jitter, shakes and analogue withdrawals, this is it.

Return to Digital Drive

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?

98.10.54.107
Posted on March 3, 2017 at 17:47:57
dave789
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Would you buy a hi-fi CD player that came to the market approximately in 2010, in the price range $1000 - $2000 (the current used, or B-stock price)?

Two things to consider.

[1] Is the digital audio technology in the product competitive with that in current products? For comparison, the current US new product price of Chord 2Qute DAC is about $1300.

[2] The transport mechanism may not be repairable any more, because the parts are not in production now.

P. S.

I can get a Creek Destiny 2 CD player at about $1350. The seller says it is in great condition, and has factory box though the box is dirty and worn.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 7, 2017 at 20:04:02
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 I think digital audio technology "cratered" around that time.... Asynchronous sample-rate conversion (aka "24/192 upsampling") was the big thing at the time.....

I think digital audio playback has rebounded since then, and good products out there now. (Particularly the Schiit lines.) But the best I've heard was still designs from the 1990s.

 

RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 7, 2017 at 12:27:16
milpai
Audiophile

Posts: 651
Location: Ohio
Joined: August 21, 2005
 As has been suggested below - try a Marantz. Or wait for the Oppo 205 to come out in April. IT does NOT have the APPS as in the previous Oppo. I guess they focused more on the Audio and Video part than the fancy stuff?

 

RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 7, 2017 at 06:12:54
BRab
Audiophile

Posts: 962
Joined: January 28, 2002
 To your main question, unequivocally not. A new transport such as the Cambridge CXC as recommended somewhere below, plus a DAC is a far better cost and flexibility option, and very likely sonically too.

 

How about a brand NEW Marantz ?, posted on March 6, 2017 at 10:56:23
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a used CDP. I'd probably go for a new one that is a couple notches above the mass market cheapies, see how it sounds, and if its not to your liking try it with a good outboard DAC.

Marantz seems to have a few good CDPs. Look into these models which range in price from $399 - $1200 NEW with 3 year warranty. And they ALL have digital out in case you want to try an outboard DAC.

HD-CD1

CD5005

CD6006

SA8005

The US warranty is 3 years parts and labor (on non-Reference products) if purchased from an authorized Marantz dealer. Beyond that they will still provide support for a price. And it's not likely that Marantz will go out of business anytime soon, like some 'audiophool' fly by night outfits. Remember Raysonic? When their expensive CDPs went tits up, their customers were left with door stops.


 

Good idea---NT, posted on March 6, 2017 at 11:05:45
lancelot
Audiophile

Posts: 1722
Joined: March 23, 2001
 NT

 

Somewhat different answer, but, posted on March 5, 2017 at 13:53:24
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 have you considered moving to a steamer based system using a Raspberry Pi player along with your choice of DAC?

The flexibility and ease of access to anything in my digital library is addictive. I cannot imagine returning to the need to spin one disk at a time.

 

Do you have any recommendations..., posted on March 5, 2017 at 15:47:57
mr.bear
Audiophile

Posts: 4167
Joined: November 13, 2001
 ...for clear, simple information on a sort of "how-to for dummies" way on what you said- using the Raspberry Pi as a music streamer?

 

RE: Do you have any recommendations..., posted on March 6, 2017 at 05:05:48
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 I couldn't bother to learn all the geeky stuff about ripping using a PC, so I went the simpler route and bought a RipNAS (similar devices are available) that combine a ripper drive with a NAS, plus all the required software for grabbing metadata, cover artwork, precise bit count required for perfect rip, etc.

These devices use twin hard drives to offer some degree of backup in the event of a HD failure, but best to make separate ones from time to time. The ripped CDs are stored in folders and, where 2 or more CDs have the same Composer or Artist, it usually places all within the Artist's folder, reducing the amount of post-ripping juggling to get the CDs where you want them stored.

With Classical in particular, you'll find that many of the CD folders are mis-filed, often because the "artist" is considered as the conductor or orchestra or soloist rather than the composer. Using Windows, CD folders can be easily re-named or re-filed to suit your preference. I personally find it useful to have a number of master folders (Classical, Jazz, World & Weird, etc) so I can look only in that section of my library if I'm looking for a particular type of music to listen to. Again (a personal preference) I like to find my music via the Folders route with either Sonos or Bluesound app. With 1000+ CDs, using Artists or Composers is a waste of time as everyone on every CD with any credit seems to find their way into an endless list of 10000 names and you can't see the wood for the trees. Going straight to my Classical main folder, then say Beethoven, I'm shown a list of all my Beethoven music. If I went to Artists or Composers, I'd have to look under B(eethoven) and L(udvig) for my Beethoven in both sections - and still miss the ones where the metadata considers the soloist or orchestra is the artist or composer! I don't mess about with correcting metadata (although for classical it's dire) as this is time consuming and unnecessary if you simply cut and paste any mis-filed CDs to where you think they should belong.

That's my "dummies guide" but other will have other ways to their handle hard drive stored music

 

Great question, posted on March 5, 2017 at 17:06:15
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 for which there is no one answer.

Over a period of time I ripped all my CDs to FLAC. This I did to include tagging and some level of compression. One can do that free with programs like EAC or for a nominal investment, dbPowerAmp which is a better app with more capability.

The main question becomes: how do you want to stream your library?

Since I have a capable desktop, I ripped all my content along with downloaded content to it. I run Logitech Music Server (LMS) on it which feeds multiple players in my environment. On the other hand, one can localize the server and run everything from a simple Raspberry PI environment with a USB drive containing the library.

There are many folks over at Computer who are happy to assist you in building your digital library. The good news is that one can purchase a RPI player for $120 and either leverage storage from your PC (as I do) or use a standalone USB drive to provide a first rate and inexpensive digital playback system.

 

RE: Somewhat different answer, but, posted on March 5, 2017 at 14:47:06
dave789
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I am not excellent at computer.

Every few years, my Windows laptop stops working and I end up complete reinstall of Windows and programs. Very time consuming.

A few years ago, I tried to rip some CDs and organize music files with iTunes on my mac mini, but it was not trivial: how to organize (especially classical music CD), what to do with booklet, the method of sharing with other device and other family members. I spent quite a time learning very little. I gave up.

 

Coupla' suggestions, posted on March 7, 2017 at 14:08:19
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Use a free program like Macrium to image your OS drive before it gets corrupted. Use CCleaner to keep crap from accumulating.

I agree that tagging can be more complicated that it should. First suggestion - don't use iTunes. Get a free application like EAC or better yet, dbPoweramp. There are lots of free tagging editors like Tag&Rename to fine tune the results.

I deploy my digital library to multiple sources: main system using uRendu player, garage system using Touch (soon to be RPi) player, Oppo 103 in HT, office system that also drives in house and around pool speakers and to three iOS devices using the iPeng app.

Yes, it takes some time to create an open source library (I use FLAC), but the benefits can be enormous in terms of convenience and flexibility. Maybe in my soon-to-be retirement, I need to write a "How to Create a Digital Library for Dummies" and offer consulting services. :)

 

RE: Somewhat different answer, but - Yes, posted on March 5, 2017 at 22:06:15
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Some guys here seem to spend a lot of time and energy organising and backing up their music libraries.

Me, I just buy at least two hdds and copy all music, video and backup contents on them.

Compression? Why do it other than IT religion?

 

RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 5, 2017 at 12:03:40
cawson@onetel.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2382
Joined: September 27, 2004
 A cheap CDP will give you a cheap sound, so stick with good quality - or rip your CDs and play from hard drive - or subscribe to stream service in CD quality.

A really good and well made old CDP will offer good service if it's in good condition and you can see for yourself that it's been lightly used and well looked after. My Mark Levinson 390S CDP is in perfect working order and I'd expect it to continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I'd expect to sell it for about 1/4 of its original £6400 price.

The biggest improvement in CDP design over the last 20 years or so has been the DAC. Despite this, my ML stands up very well against the DAC in my new digital preamp. If buying old-technology CDP, look to pay about 25% of its original price. There are lots of good players around as more people are abandoning CDs as their source of music.

 

No. Only because it is 'unrepairable'. Cheaper.. maybe as a 'throwaway'., posted on March 5, 2017 at 08:43:48
3+4=5
 I have bought used $40 to $80 CD changers and expect to throw them away if they break.

A $1,000 used player, which is unrepairable is a bad choice.
I would stick to ones which can be repaired.
Used may break a day after you buy it.
$1,000 doorstop is not worth the risk.

On the other hand, if $1,000 is what you spend for one dinner night out... Then the risk is nothing.

 

RE: No. Only because it is 'unrepairable'. Cheaper.. maybe as a 'throwaway'., posted on March 6, 2017 at 04:44:56
dave789
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Joined: September 21, 2001
 "A $1,000 used player, which is unrepairable is a bad choice.
I would stick to ones which can be repaired."

That is important. Could you tell us how you found out that Creek Destiny 2 CD player is unrepairable?

 

Well, MOST older players are 'unrepairable' as far as the laser assy goes, posted on March 10, 2017 at 05:44:26
3+4=5
 Far too many high end players use a unique build for the laser platform. So as soon as they go out of production.. that is the end.
Some types have lesser quality substitutes which can be plugged in. Like the Sony SCD-1. But then all you have is a cheap substitute?
I would return the question: How do YOU know that the one you are interested in DOES have parts available. 20 to 1 not.

Naturally, common parts can always be replaced.. like capacitors.

 

more info about the CD plalyer, posted on March 4, 2017 at 09:52:59
dave789
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Thanks for your posts.

The $1350 CD player with dirty and worn factory box is said to be a B-stock item with 1-year manufacturer warranty. The seller is said to be an authorized retailer for Creek, Krell, etc.

Here is some comparison with a current product.


Creek Audio Evolution 100 CD Player

- The remote does not control power on/standby.

- Program function is not enabled.

- The player does not process de-emphasis (Stereoplay 05/2016)

- Jitter 385 ps in Stereoplay 05/2016. (In the same article, Quad Artera Play (2000 Euro) showed 317 ps from CD).

- There are vent holes on the top steel plate, which would draw in dust, which may affect the lifespan of the transport mechanism.

Creek Audio Destiny 2 CD Player

- The remote controls power on/standby.

- Program function is enabled.

- The player processes de-emphasis (Stereoplay 11/2010)

- Jitter 152 ps in Stereoplay 11/2010. This seems to be a good figure for a CD player or DAC without "upsampling." (In the same article, Moon CD .5 showed 172 ps, and Ayon CD 1s showed 273 ps.) (For more jitter comparison (Stereoplay 11/2010): 174 ps, Resteck MDAC+, 1610 Euro; 170 ps and 173 ps(USB), T+A DAC 8, 1850 Euro (

 

RE: more info about the CD plalyer, posted on March 4, 2017 at 13:34:49
classfolkphile
Audiophile

Posts: 533
Location: Florida
Joined: December 17, 2002
 Not worth it.

As recommended below, pick up an inexpensive CDP (Onkyo, Tascam) or CD Transport (Cambridge CXC) of decent quality for a few hundred. Pick up a decent inexpensive cable (Blue Jean, etc.) and purchase an excellent DAC for around a grand (Gustard X20 Pro, Musical Paradise D2, Schitt Gungnir, etc.). You'll get much better sound.

 

RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 06:34:58
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Doesn't seem like a good deal to me. Used CD players are iffy. Consumer Reports way back noted that the average lifespan of disc spinners is 7 years. That takes into account the lucky folks who get 20-30 years and the unlucky folks that get 3 days.

Still it's 7 years old and it's not like Creek is exactly the pinnacle in audiophile name plates or the mechanism is one of the heavy hitters using VRDS or Philips Pro2 mechanisms.

So from a transport perspective - it's likely a "meh" unit. The DAC is probably nothing special either so $350 is probably about right for most $2000 CD players from 2010.

What you could do is buy a relatively entry level unit like the Sony UBP 800 for $300 that does every modern thing that can be done including CD and use it as a transport (which may not be great but probably no worse than most anything else up to $1,000) since again there is no one making premium transports anymore - so it's basically the Philips Pro 2 as being the premium mechanism and everything else that falls in the land of mediocrity (and note the Philips Pro 2 is also no longer made but some companies bought up massive stock of them and others just stopped making CD players)

So you get the cheapie Sony machine and then buy a separate external DAC. In theory DAC's are a safer buy second hand because there are no moving parts so they should last decades.

The external DAC at $1k combined with the Sony or something like it for $300 will likely sound better than (enter any Creek CD player here ....)

And if the disc spinner does break down it's only $300. If the $1300 Creek fails it all fails and could be an issue to repair.

 

RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 06:30:22
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 dave789-

that is too much money for the Creek.

 

RE: inroduced in ~ 2010, $1-2k, used CD player: worth?, posted on March 4, 2017 at 02:06:22
PAR
 I checked and the DVD mechanism that is the transport in this player is still available. Not expensive at circa $70.

The price you quote of $1350 doesn't seem very attractive to me if it is for a used one ( the description implies it is or was perhaps a shop demonstrator given the worn box). When it came out 7 or 8 years ago it was priced at 1400 gbp including tax @20% over here. That should have made it around $1700 new but I am aware that US distributors do seem to load the price somewhat so maybe it still looks good to you.

However think also on the fact that its replacement and current model the Evolution 50 is $1495 and the more complex Evolution 100 with USB input to 24/192 is under $2K. Unless the Destiny 2 has some special quality for you why would you buy a used one at the price offered when the new one costs so little more?

 

My Marantz DV-9600 silver disk spinner hit the market over a decade ago..., posted on March 3, 2017 at 18:15:19
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 at about $2,000. I bought mine used on Ebay for about $350 something like 3-4 years ago, and in near germ-free condition.

It's worked flawlessly ever since I acquired it. Wife uses it almost daily to watch movies on DVD, and I spin CD's and DVD-Audio disks at least every few days.

Great sounding piece, IMNSHO.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: My Marantz DV-9600 silver disk spinner hit the market over a decade ago..., posted on March 4, 2017 at 02:26:02
PAR
 Unfortunately optical pickup units are consumables albeit with a much longer lifespan than, say, a stylus. So it is unfortunately inevitable that at some point your player will not function. And each day that you use it that point gets closer.

So I still think that used optical players are very much hit and miss as far as longevity is concerned and your success so far with your Ebay bargain is unfortunately no indication of how long any other old player will last. I have a Sony CD player that is now 30 years old and still works fine. Meanwhile during the same period I got through 2 Sony transports on another player (it would have been 3 had it not been for a trade in).

Anyway I now hope that your player will turn out to be some kind of world record holder for lifespan. Like those occasional pieces you see on TV or read about where someone still uses their great-grandmother's toaster purchased in 1952.

 

It replaced my modded CD-67se which still worked fine..., posted on March 4, 2017 at 21:32:39
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 when I retired it after 10 years of regular use.

Did have to clean the led a couple times over the years but no belt failure or anything major.

Just lucky I guess.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

Page processed in 0.033 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]