Preamp break-in

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 11, 2017 at 05:31:56
fin1bxn@msn.com Audiophile Posts: 2215 Location: new jersey Joined: November 15, 2005	Good question, as long as all the "line in" sources are the same (CD/Tuner/AUX) it should be ok. But if you have a Phono section, that's a separate circuit. all the others use the same circuit but have a switch to select between them.

RE: Preamp break-in .. Really ?, posted on July 11, 2017 at 09:09:45
bare Audiophile Posts: 1879 Joined: April 14, 2009	Open to buying a bridge too? There is no breakin on solid state, other than in the minds of Marketers and the Gullible. But then we all hear what we to want to hear.. in ALL things. Ain't humans wunnerful?

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 11, 2017 at 09:16:36
airtime Audiophile Posts: 11287 Location: Arizona Joined: February 4, 2003	I rarely agree with bare but 500 hours - come on! Saying 500 hours is just asking you to keep the stereo until you just accept it's sound. My personal opinion, and we all know how much that's worth!, is electronics break in in a hour or so. Charge up the caps, settle in some solder joints and you're good to go.

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 11, 2017 at 10:58:56
dbphd Audiophile Posts: 1674 Location: Montecito, CA Joined: September 6, 2006	Ayre claims a 100 to 500 hour break-in, but doesn't specify whether that's total or for each input. Presumably those numbers come from Charles Hansen, the designer. I'm buying the KX-5 Twenty preamp to replace a K-5xeMP. The KX-5 Twenty is designed to match my KV-5 Twenty amp, and should pair well with my beloved C-5xeMP disc player. db

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 11, 2017 at 11:09:14

airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 11287
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003

It doesn't matter which input you use. The main break in they are talking about is the signal caps/path and power supply parts. The input is simply a selector switch feeding the signal TOO those parts.

The only exception is phono input. All the others are electrically the same.

I am going to contradict myself and say this. I did find that teflon caps are an exception and do take a LONG time to break in. Mine took about a years in my CJ preamp and the sound did change a little.

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 11, 2017 at 12:07:01
Audiopile1	Important thing to consider is take careful notes during those 500 hours of break in so that you can hear the micro differences in caps breaking in. Best to listen to pink noise for at least 100 of those hours.

OK, posted on July 11, 2017 at 12:20:11
Frihed89 Audiophile Posts: 15703 Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005	But if it sounds bad out of the box, send it back. Your brain will adjust to the sound over time. If it sounds good out of the box and gets even better, that's OK with me, but there's at least a chance that the brain will be slow to react to the improvement...500 hrs?

Have you asked Ayre this question ?, posted on July 11, 2017 at 13:39:10

bjamz
Audiophile

Posts: 227
Joined: February 12, 2012

" Ayre claims a 100 to 500 hour break-in, but doesn't specify whether that's total or for each input."

The 'your brain will adjust to the (bad) sound' is only true for novices.., posted on July 11, 2017 at 14:22:19

3+4=5

But that is enough reason for me to despise the endless claims about break in.
It may be true...
But it may also just be a steaming pile!
So I would advise anyone who gets the run around about break in (if they do not like a component's sound) to be VERY suspicious.
And never let some seller/ salesperson talk you into hanging on to some POS while they are spouting about break in.

Really the ideal item would 'sound pretty good' out of the box. Then, as break in proceeded the sound would improve to 'stunning'.

Stuff which still sound like crap after 48 hours IS CRAP. PERIOD.

each input? no. Maybe the phono (if you have one) may need it too. nt.., posted on July 11, 2017 at 14:23:38
3+4=5	.

RE: each input? no. Maybe the phono (if you have one) may need it too. nt.., posted on July 11, 2017 at 18:17:42
FSonicSmith Audiophile Posts: 528 Location: Midwest Joined: February 18, 2009	I have grown so tired of this tired topic. Capacitors in particular need burn in- the sound through capacitors goes from muddy to good to muddy to excellent over many hours. There is NO ONE who knows more about audio technology than Charles Hansen so chuckle and tease all you want- it only reflects badly on you.

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 11, 2017 at 19:27:22
Rod M Web Geek Posts: 16242 Location: So. California Joined: March 1, 1999 Contributor Since: March 1, 1999	As other have said, it may get better with age and only the phono stage would be an input that would need additional break in as far as inputs. But if neither isn't amazing out of the box, why bother? I'd love to try one out and wish I could afford it. What do you think? Have you had it in your system? -Rod

RE: The 'your brain will adjust to the (bad) sound' is only true for novices.., posted on July 11, 2017 at 19:27:37

Mick Wolfe
Audiophile

Posts: 3364
Location: AZ
Joined: October 10, 1999
Contributor
Since: September 4, 2000

I'm usually looking to hear "potential" early in the break-in process. If 48 hrs. pass and I don't hear a hint of magic, probably made a bad choice. Morrow cables ( IC's in this case) were a good example of this. Despite the insane claim of 500 hours break-in needed, I heard a bit of magic after only about 12 hours. Stuck with it and they only got better. And yes, I believe some of the "required" break-in claims of hundreds of hours can be somewhat of a scam to get the inexperienced to accept what they're hearing being better. Now to be fair, I have a friend who is constantly trying different designer caps in both his pre-amp and power amp looking for that "magic" cap or caps. Seems like he's spend months doing nothing but breaking in caps. Some have notoriously long and painful break-in periods. I use him as a classic example of the road I DON'T care to go down in this hobby.

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on July 12, 2017 at 02:41:26

dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006

I don't expect delivery for at least several weeks. I'm using a K-5xeMP I bought used that I think sounds pretty damn good. Users and reviewers claim the KX-5 Twenty sounds substantially better. I don't think Ayre implies the sound of the new preamp will be bad, just that it will take a few hundred hours to reach its sonic potential given the nature of the materials used in its construction. In addition to the C-5xeMP, sources will an Oppo 205 that passes DirecTV, Fire TV, and Apple TV, and a Sony HAP-Z1ES. Watching TV can put on a lot of hours and the Sony can play in repeat mode.

The preamp has no phono stage. In another setup I use a Parasound JC 3 phono stage with a JC 2 BP preamp and JC 1 monoblocks for vinyl.

db

What!?, posted on July 12, 2017 at 08:25:19
bare Audiophile Posts: 1879 Joined: April 14, 2009	IF it does Not have a phono ! Then a 40$ Passdiy.com B1 buffer kit ..WILL.. outperform it. Without any doubt whatsoever. Audio game requires 'some' situational awareness my friend.

The my toy is better than your toy game? LOL., posted on July 12, 2017 at 08:40:13
3+4=5	For every device someone has some other giant killer THEY think is way better. Freedom of choice.

RE: What!?, posted on July 12, 2017 at 12:27:15
dbphd Audiophile Posts: 1674 Location: Montecito, CA Joined: September 6, 2006	bare, your posts have been nonsensical and unhelpful. What's the problem? db

RE: What!?, posted on July 12, 2017 at 16:17:44
fantja Audiophile Posts: 15518 Location: Alabama Joined: September 11, 2010	db- I concur w/ airtime. Yes, several hundred hours are required for break-in/burn-in. I fully support this theory. Bring a fan of Conrad Johnson and that company's teflon caps/parts, I can testify that 500 hours, is the bare minimum.

No..., posted on July 12, 2017 at 17:54:35
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37584 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	I can testify that 500 hours, is the bare* minimum.* pun intended? :) My ARC gear is the same way. Just play it!

LOL. Same preamp, but for some people it might be 112 hrs. while for others 500 hrs.? , posted on July 13, 2017 at 13:04:32
Rick W	Guess it depends on whether you listen to Coltrane or Desmond, Steely Dan or Queen, Haydn or Ligeti, Jay Z or Luther Vandross, Nancy Wilson or Aretha.

RE: Have you asked Ayre this question ?, posted on July 15, 2017 at 11:26:27

dbphd
Audiophile

Posts: 1674
Location: Montecito, CA
Joined: September 6, 2006

That's obviously what I should do if I need an answer. In retrospect, though, it is what it is. And when the KX-5 Twenty arrives I'll install it and begin to listen. I can turn the level way down, set the Sony HAP-Z1ES to repeat all tracks, and let it run while we sleep -- might even be able to set the KX-5 Twenty to standby. During the day, it can provide audio for TV, with only occasional bouts of music.

Sorry I wasted everyones' time with a poorly thought-out query.

db

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on August 16, 2017 at 17:38:19
dbphd Audiophile Posts: 1674 Location: Montecito, CA Joined: September 6, 2006	The Ayre KX-5 Twenty is up and running. Even without breaking-in it sounds superb. I can't imagine what breaking-in will improve, nevertheless the Sony HAP-Z1ES will run 24/7 in repeat mode for a week using the input that will ultimately go to the Ayre C-5xeMP, then using its own input. All connections are balanced. db

RE: Preamp break-in, posted on August 18, 2017 at 01:23:27
Disbeliever Audiophile Posts: 1877 Joined: June 1, 2012	Best way to burn in is to run for 2 hours turn off for 20 minutes, then start again, this ages the caps quicker 100 hours or less should be enough.OTH Trying to improve sound on a Marantz SA7-S1 I wasted 700 hours but it never improved one iota straight out of the box.

break-in, posted on August 29, 2017 at 09:15:20
bare Audiophile Posts: 1879 Joined: April 14, 2009	No one needs to stand on their head for 2 hours, then rest for 20 mins, then do it all again. Until one's brain starts to revive from the oxygenated blood flooding it.

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Preamp break-in

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