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12.21.20.67
Just bought a Denon DL-103r and I am trying to set it up on my Micro Seiki DQX-500 (little brother to the DQX-1000). However, I am confused by the compliance of this cart. I have read that it is officially a very low compliance cart at 5cu. I have also read that I shouldn't go by the official specs and that it is more like 8.5cu. My TT arm is low compliance but it has a weight I can use on a scale from 1(closer to base) to 10 (closer to headshell)that is used for adjustment to the cart. Can someone recommend the best place to put this weight for best match to the cart? Also, it is best to track it at 2.5 grams?
Follow Ups:
I was thinking about getting a scout sometime in the near future and just noticed that you got one. Do you use the vpi headshell weight with your denon?
Although the figures, cart compliance and weight, arm mass, etc., say I should have to, I'm not using the headshell weight with my DL-103 at the moment and hear no resonance issues. I do have the 3g VPI headshell weight, so I can use it if necessary.
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
The resonance frequency of the 103R on the standard JMW-9 arm (without headshell weight) is a very acceptable 11 Hz, based on measurements using the Hi-Fi News test record. My own ears confirm that resonance isn't an issue with this cart/arm combo.
Denon rates compliance for their carts at 100Hz for some reason. The critical frequency for compliance is 10Hz. So, the 5 cu 103 is actually almost 9cu at 10Hz. Tone arms have effective mass, not measured in cu but in grams. If your arm has an effective mass of 8.5g, the 103/arm will have a resonant frequency of 13Hz, which is too high. The ideal range is 9-11 Hz. if you could add 3g to the arms mass, the resonant frequency would drop to a better 12 Hz, still a bit high but probably OK. These figures all include 1g for mounting hardware for the 103 which weighs 8g.
Yes, 2.5g should be fine for VTF. I run my 103 at 2.3g with no issues.
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
Thanks for the reply Henry. So based upon your response the cart is not as low compliant as I thought. I have the manual for my TT but it does not give the effective mass of the arm. It only refers to it as low mass and therefore offers the additional weight to put on the arm at varoius positions(1-10) For instance it lists several low compliant carts (from 30 years ago) such as an Ortofon MC10 and suggests using the weight at position 9. So I am trying to figure out #1-do I need the weight, and #2-where to put it if I do need it. Is there a method to determine the effective mass of my arm?
The Hi-Fi News Test Record prvides a means of measuring arm/cartridge resonance. You could use this record to determine where to place the mass on your tonearm or whether you need additional mass at the headshell. I am presently using a DL-103R in a SME V tonearm, which has about 10.5-g effective mass. This system exhibits a 12-Hz vertical resonance, which I believe is optimum. Some people think 10-Hz is the point to shoot for, but I like 12-Hz better.
For the benefit of those who have not yet bought the Hi-Fi News Test Record and want to determine system resonance, the several old Shure test records do exactly the same thing. They are generally available in used record stores at $1 or so. Even old and worn they will work for this purpose. Most that I have seen, though, are in pretty good condition.
I actually just purchased that record and was going to try to use it this weekend. How do you know when you have the proper resonance from listening to the record? Do you listen for a certain sound?
Track 2 and 3 on side 2 are specifically made for this purpose. The suspension of the cartridge will get excited and start to wobble once it reaches the systemic resonance. There's a voice on the track counting down the frequency so that you know where you are at. It's all explained on the back of the cover anyway.I think that the arm on your TT is a MA-707. It's made for high to medium compliance cartridges so my guess would be that you need to slide the additional weight all the way forward (pos. 10). Even at 9cu the Denon is still a low compliance cart.
The recommendations that Micro Seiki give in their manual (from Vinyl Engine) doesn't make much sense to me. They recommend pos. 10 for a Grace F-8F (20cu) and pos. 9 for an Ortofon MC20 (25cu)? I've taken the compliance data from Cartridge Database.
I'm not sure if the DL-103R and the MA-707 are made for each other. Does the Denon not come with an additional weight plate for the headshell (3g.)? See if you can get a resonance between 8-12Hz on track 2 of side 2. 10Hz is claimed to be the best. You might need both the headshell weight and the sliding weight at pos. 10. Your arm (if it is the 707) is made for cartridges weighing up to 12g. so it should be possible (8.5g. + 3g. + ?).
Don't use the Hi-Fi News record to try and set anti-skate though. It's useless for that (you will end up with too much). Also, don't worry too much if your set-up can't track the torture tests perfectly (not many can clear Band 9 anyway).
Great tips! Thanks for all the help. Played the test track last night and my arm/cart combo at position 10 and no extra weight on the headshell resonates at 12 hz, which apparently is acceptable.
nt
I would just suggest getting a 3-5g headshell weight and mount it between your cart and the headshell. Elusive Disc has a VPI 3g headshell weight.
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
The VPI 3g headshell weight is .120 thick stainless Steel.
It is designed to mount on top of the headshell.But I guess you could use it underneath if you have enough VTA height adjustment.
Ya mass is mass. I don't think it should make a difference top or bottom. I actually have mine overhanging the front of the tone arm because I figured it adds a little more leverage. It also acts as a finger lift because I can't fit the finger lift with the weight on. I don't know if it's a bad idea to do this but it seems to work well.
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