Vinyl Asylum

Best cartridge for my setup?

38.116.2.4

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hukkfinn

(A)

I have a Rega P25.
My phono pre is an Eastern Electric Minimax. It can do low or hi output MC, or MM.
For lo MC, it has only two ohm settings: 50 and 100.
Its gain is MM 42dB / MC 57dB.
Sound preferences: I like glorious midrange, to give "the singer-is-right-there" feeling. I also need rhythm, pace, musicality, slam, bass impact and emotion. I am less concerned with absolute nth degree of treble detail.
My Dyna Karat isn't working well with this phono pre. There is not enough slam/impact/bass. Grados have not worked well either.
Any ideas for the "best" sounding cart given this equipment and list of preferences?
Thanks,
Hukk

Follow Ups:

i seem to remember something about the Karat and that phono pre - OMalley 17:23:07 07/20/06 (0)
not being compatable. See the link below.

~Slainte,
The OMalley
- Karat maybe not so good for that pre (Open in New Window)
Not enuf Slam, Impact? It ain't the cartridge's fault - Ken Lyon 15:35:56 07/20/06 (4)
look to the phonopre as your most likely culprit.
- Reply to "aint the cartridge" - hukkfinn 04:45:11 07/21/06 (2)
  I agree with you, but I assumed that the problem was a mismatch between the cart's ohm loading desires and the Minimax's available settings.
  Ken and Richard - what phono pre would you recommend? I would like to keep it "tubed" if possible but I'll try anything.
  I have tried the Dynavector P75 and it sounded bleached.
  Hukk
  - Re: Reply to "aint the cartridge" - Ken Lyon 14:57:02 07/21/06 (1)
    I don't know what price range you'd consider but in a valve phonostage I was very impressed with the Art Audio V1.
    As far as loading,I generally use a setting of 100 ohms or thereabouts for the 17D2's (as low as 80 and as high as 300) with good results.The main issue with the 17D's is to get an adequate amount of gain, preferably without the need for a stepup.
    The P75 is a great value phonostage but it's lighter, crisper presentation won't suit every system equally.IME, the P75 works best when used with interconnects using simple stranded copper or solid core geometry such as Linn, Naim, DNM etc.The more exotic cables I've tried with it always seemed to accentuate the detail at the expense of timbre, fluidity and romance.
    - Thanks Ken. - hukkfinn 06:18:19 07/22/06 (0)
      The more I read and think about the sound that I'm getting from the Minimax with the Karat 17D2mkII, the more I am convinced that, as you say, the issue I'm wrestling with is adequate gain.
      Hukk
- I agree. - richardl 16:33:55 07/20/06 (0)
  most carts will produce the goods. The best will do more. I have found that usually the flaws are in the table, arm or upstream in the phonostage. Try another phono before you change carts.
Re: Best cartridge for my setup? - Fretless 15:04:29 07/20/06 (1)
I think the "not enough slam/impact/bass" problem lies with the Minimax, not the cartridge. I've heard one with the stock tubes in a very familiar setting and found it lush and very 3D with a nice palpable midrange, but it was overly sweet, polite, and too warm and bloated on the bottom. I don't believe that this phono stage will be able to serve up the slam and impact you're looking for, and that your Karat already has in spades.
IMO, the Denon 103, while obviously an excellent cart for the money, is a big step down from your current Dyna.
- Very interesting -- thank you. What phono preamp would better serve my needs? - hukkfinn 04:41:56 07/21/06 (0)
  Hukk
Re: Best cartridge for my setup? - lcrim 12:23:54 07/20/06 (0)
I have the EE MM phono w/ the Audio Technica AT-OC9ML II. Output is rated @ 0.4mV and loading @ 20 ohms and I run it on the 47 ohms ( MC low ). I tried the 100 ohms ( MC high ) input and much preferred the richer and more liquid sound of the lower input.
You didn't mentioned your arm or TT but I have a KAB modded Technics 1200 MKII and the hydraulic damped arm works for lots of different mass carts.
Larry
Hate to sound like a broken LP, but . . . Denon DL-103. - HenryH 09:08:25 07/20/06 (7)
Either regular or the "R" variant. You want bass and midrange magic? Look no further.

Henry
A 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
- Thank you for the suggestion... what is its optimum ohm loading? - hukkfinn 09:17:42 07/20/06 (6)
  Hukk
  - Does anybody prefer the 103 over the 103R? - hukkfinn 13:14:11 07/20/06 (3)
    I am reading a bunch of reviews praising the R over the 103, but the R's .25mv output is concerning me, as Garth points out, my gain may not be sufficient.
    Hukk
    - It's not really even 0.25mV. - Garth 13:36:39 07/20/06 (2)
      Denon uses the spec of 5cm/sec to measure the output of their cartridges. More common is 3.54cm/sec. So if you "derate" the Denon number to the more usual and more often used 3.54cm/sec spec the output of the "R" is really 0.175mV.
      The normal 103 is typically 0.35-0.38mV@5cm/sec or about 0.25mV when comparing to most other cartridges. Even that is only going to produce 176mV into your linestage. About 300mV is more like it. Which means 62-63dB gain min. is really needed.
      Depending on what you want to spend perhaps a transformer used with the MM input is the solution.
      Good luck!
      Cheers!
      - Re: It's not really even 0.25mV. - blake 14:11:14 07/20/06 (1)
        
        In Reply to: It's not really even 0.25mV. posted by Garth on July 20, 2006 at 13:36:39:
        
        Garth: My 103R (and it is the "R" version) came, along with a truckload of Japanese instructions which I cannot decipher, with a frequency response graph for my particular cartridge with its serial # showing frequency response (pretty darn flat from 0 to 20khz), tracking force info of 2.5g, loading of 47K and, interestingly output levels (taken at 1KHz 50mm/sH. whatever that means-probably exactly what you described above) of .32 mV on the left channel and .31mV on the right channel.
        
        The plain 103 is supposed to have a slightly higher output than the "R", so I'm assuming that many of the plain 103's may be putting out closer to .37 or .38 mV. using the 5cm/sec spec. Perhaps some other inmates could check their papers on recently purchased 103's.
        All that being said I am running my 103R with 62 db of gain into a 100 ohm (hope I've got that right) and it sounds great. I have a feeling I could maybe get away with about 60 db but don't think I'd want to chance going much lower than that.
        I'm not sure how the output on the Ortofons is measured, but the 103R does seem to have a slightly higher output (in terms of playing louder into the same phono stage) than an older MC 20 Super, which I believe was rated at .20 mv.
        
        Like I said your .32mV "R" is really .22mV@3.45cm/s and 62dB ... - Garth 23:17:54 07/20/06 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: It's not really even 0.25mV. posted by blake on July 20, 2006 at 14:11:14:
        
        is about right but 57dB which the original poster has would be too low.
        Thanks for the confirmation.
        I have about a half dozen 103s on hand and they are all around 0.36mV@50mm/sH.
  - Re: Thank you for the suggestion... what is its optimum ohm loading? - HenryH 09:28:27 07/20/06 (0)
    My 103 sounds fine at 100 ohms. Some like it down to 40 or so. Others like it a bit higher, 300-400 Ohms. I can only tell a slight difference going through my Jolida pre at 100 Ohms and through my Denon SUT, which gives a 470 Ohm load.
    It's only $160, including shipping, from William Thakker on eBay, so if you don't like it, I'll wager you won't be out much reselling it.
    
    Henry
    A 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
  - Either 50 or 100 ohm will work fine. 57dB may be a bit low ... - Garth 09:26:01 07/20/06 (0)
    on the gain side depending on the rest of the system, especially with the "R" version.

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