Vinyl Asylum

• Curious - Paul Tobin 06:52:32 07/18/06 (1)
  In Reply to: There is no such thing as a turntable with the detail and noise level of a decent SACD. Good luck! (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 18:14:49:

  John, some months back 'mikel' offered to demo his super system for you....did anything ever come of that offer?
  If that audition took place, can I presume you were not impressed with the Rockport vs mikel's high end digital gear?
  
  
  System Details
  
  
  

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  • Re: Curious - John Elison 12:37:02 07/18/06 (0)
    In Reply to: Curious posted by Paul Tobin on July 18, 2006 at 06:52:32:

    Hi Paul,

    Actually, it seems to be very difficult to schedule a date for this audition and recording session. Mike is a very busy person and it seems he is again in the process of changing speakers. I thought we were going to get together in August, but I haven't heard back from Mike so I expect our get-together might slip into September or October. By that time Mike should have replaced his present Von Schweikert VR 9 speakers with the top-of-the-line VR 11 speakers.

    I have no doubt that I will be extremely impressed with Mike’s system. It is simply one of the finest in the world. The Rockport Sirius III is probably the finest turntable in the world, too. However, the question is whether I can copy the sound of his vinyl front-end onto Redbook digital. Personally, I think I can do that, but I won’t know for sure until the recording session convenes. At any rate, it should prove to be a lot of fun.

    Best regards,
    John Elison
    
    
    

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• Absolutely true about Noise Level - Ben Brill 21:32:32 07/16/06 (9)
  In Reply to: There is no such thing as a turntable with the detail and noise level of a decent SACD. Good luck! (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 18:14:49:

  Absolutely true about Noise Level, just look at the specs. But, I've never seen a quantitative description of 'detail'.

  So, what do you define as noise? I'm not certain where one might draw the line between low-level detail and noise. Certainly the all-zero blankness that only digital can provide is noiseless, but what's missing?

  My own preference is for tape-hiss vs. silence. With an analog source, you're working with the complete set of information; the resolution capability of playback equipment determines how much of that information is revealed. With digital, at best you're working with an approximation; information is irretrievably lost and you can never get it back.

  As Tommy Brennan says, 'My opinion, y'understand.'
  
  

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  • Re: Absolutely true about Noise Level - John Elison 21:43:09 07/16/06 (8)
    In Reply to: Absolutely true about Noise Level posted by Ben Brill on July 16, 2006 at 21:32:32:

    > With digital, at best you're working with an approximation;
    > information is irretrievably lost and you can never get it back.

    Unless you are listening to the original live performance, you are listening to an approximation regardless of format. However, high-resolution digital will always provide a more accurate approximation of the original than will vinyl.

    Best regards,
    John Elison
    
    

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    • Here is another ear-opener “The Tube” on Tacet LP versus SACD versus CD - Teresa 18:33:28 07/17/06 (0)
      In Reply to: Re: Absolutely true about Noise Level posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 21:43:09:

      Die Röhre, The Tube
      Stuttgarter Kammerorchester
      Works by Boccherini, Sammartini, Scarlatti, Handel, Vivaldi, Biber & Corelli
      SACD / CD Hybrid: Tacet S 74
      LP: L 74

      The LP has many intricate small sonic details the SACD only hints at the CD misses completely. And while the strings on the SACD are smooth wait until you hear the LP!

      This is one of the best SACDs and one of the best LPs I've ever heard. Plus the Vinyl is dead quiet on this LP as well.

      Happy listening,
      Teresa
      
      

      • Here is my review of the SACD version:   (Open in New Window)

      
      

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    • John have you actually purchased any SACDs and Audiophile LPs of the same titles? - Teresa 01:32:42 07/17/06 (6)
      In Reply to: Re: Absolutely true about Noise Level posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 21:43:09:

      I have and in most cases the LP has more resolution than the excellent sounding SACD.

      Virgil Thomson: The River (Vanguard SACD versus Analogue Productions LP)
      Any Groove Note LP versus the Groove Note SACD.
      The Classic Records Living Stereo LPs versus the Living Stereo SACDs.
      Any Analogue Productions Originals LP verses the Analogue Productions Originals SACD.

      John the only exception I have found is the Classical Columbia/Sony SACDs do sound better than the Classical Columbia LPs. However the Franklin Mint LP versions from "The 100 Greatest Recordings of all Time" beat either one.

      Don't get me wrong SACDs sound superb, but they do not have the resolution or sound quality of the best LPs.

      Happy listening,
      Teresa
      
      
      

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      • No, I'm only making an assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl. (nt) - John Elison 05:00:17 07/17/06 (5)
        In Reply to: John have you actually purchased any SACDs and Audiophile LPs of the same titles? posted by Teresa on July 17, 2006 at 01:32:42:

        
        
        

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        • John that's an incorrect assumption as Vinyl is VASTLY superior to redbook CD, only slightly superior to SACD. (nt) - Teresa 17:52:11 07/17/06 (1)
          In Reply to: No, I'm only making an assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 17, 2006 at 05:00:17:

          
          
          

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          • Thanks, Teresa. That explains it. I kind of figured as much. ;-) (nt) - John Elison 18:22:02 07/17/06 (0)
            In Reply to: John that's an incorrect assumption as Vinyl is VASTLY superior to redbook CD, only slightly superior to SACD. (nt) posted by Teresa on July 17, 2006 at 17:52:11:

            
            
            

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        • Re: No, I'm only making an assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl. (nt) - Ozzy 08:38:05 07/17/06 (0)
          In Reply to: No, I'm only making an assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 17, 2006 at 05:00:17:

          "assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl"

          That's quite an assumption considering it's more in your head than anything else.

          
          Multi kilobuck analog rig and you still haven't heard what vinyl is capable of. How sad.

          
          Oz
          
          

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        • John, do you work for Sony? - jbangelfish 05:59:26 07/17/06 (0)
          In Reply to: No, I'm only making an assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 17, 2006 at 05:00:17:

          You should, you keep spouting that shit that they've been claiming for the last 20 years or so. If you think redbook is superior, you need help, seriously. Why are you here? Why do you have a 15k turntable?
          Bill
          
          

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        • there seems to be a lot of that lately - OMalley 05:33:11 07/17/06 (0)
          In Reply to: No, I'm only making an assumption based on the superiority of Redbook to vinyl. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 17, 2006 at 05:00:17:

          some people have not had any hands on experience but are full of opinions. We got a name for that ...
          

          ~Slainte,
          The OMalley
          
          

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• John my $625.00 Music Hall mmf-5 turntable easily beats both my Xindak SCD-2 & Sony 9000ES players in detail - Teresa 19:55:33 07/16/06 (0)
  In Reply to: There is no such thing as a turntable with the detail and noise level of a decent SACD. Good luck! (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 18:14:49:

  And with the best LPs in noise level as well.

  For example on the RCA Living Stereo recordings, Classic Records 180/200 Gram versions have lower overall noise than the RCA SACD versions. The LPs have almost no surface noise and extremely low tape hiss and when both are combined they have lower noise than the tape hiss on the RCA Living Stereo SACD versions.

  Also don't forget LPs have greater impact on percussion strikes, faster transient response I believe? And a little more delicacy in the highs.

  Don't get me wrong SACD sounds fantastic, their greatest strength being in the midrange.

  And of course I am only talking about the best LPs and the best SACDs. There are lots of lousy recordings in both formats, more so for LP just because it's been around longer.

  So Timinator should be able to surpass the sonic qualities of his $1,000.00 SACD player. The Xindak SCD-2 SACD player retails for $1,699.99, and the original retail of the Sony DVPS-9000ES was $1,499.99 and my $629.00 Music Hall mmf-5 turntable easily beats both of them.

  Teresa
  
  

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• only if YOU say so john - hifitommy 18:57:22 07/16/06 (8)
  In Reply to: There is no such thing as a turntable with the detail and noise level of a decent SACD. Good luck! (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 18:14:49:

  but i am sure there are dissenters to your opinion, mine included.
  
  ...regards...tr
  
  

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  • Why are Elison's post so troll-like? Does he get no attention at home? [nt] - OMalley 19:35:39 07/16/06 (6)
    In Reply to: only if YOU say so john posted by hifitommy on July 16, 2006 at 18:57:22:

    .
    

    ~Slainte,
    The OMalley
    
    

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    • I understand that you view the truth as a troll, but I figure that's your problem, not mine. (nt) - John Elison 21:28:32 07/16/06 (5)
      In Reply to: Why are Elison's post so troll-like? Does he get no attention at home? [nt] posted by OMalley on July 16, 2006 at 19:35:39:

      
      
      

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      • Blasphemy! - jbangelfish 06:01:47 07/17/06 (0)
        In Reply to: I understand that you view the truth as a troll, but I figure that's your problem, not mine. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 21:28:32:

        And bullshit.
        Bill
        
        

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      • nya nya (-: [nt] - OMalley 04:04:36 07/17/06 (0)
        In Reply to: I understand that you view the truth as a troll, but I figure that's your problem, not mine. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 21:28:32:

        .
        

        ~Slainte,
        The OMalley
        
        

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      • Naughty, naughty John you will not get away with that here. - Teresa 01:38:09 07/17/06 (2)
        In Reply to: I understand that you view the truth as a troll, but I figure that's your problem, not mine. (nt) posted by John Elison on July 16, 2006 at 21:28:32:

        Many of us have compared SACDs versus the Audiophile LP versions and found the LP to have the most resolution and best sound quality, even in the case of DSD mastered recordings. The advantage of SACD is for titles not available on LP.

        So yes your incorrect “inflammatory” statement would make you a troll, sorry.

        Teresa
        
        
        

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        • one doesn't need audiophile copies to demo this nt - docw 09:49:57 07/17/06 (1)
          In Reply to: Naughty, naughty John you will not get away with that here. posted by Teresa on July 17, 2006 at 01:38:09:

          
          
          

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          • I know that Doc but - Teresa 17:59:31 07/17/06 (0)
            In Reply to: one doesn't need audiophile copies to demo this nt posted by docw on July 17, 2006 at 09:49:57:

            we know which commercial LP pressings sound good and which don't.

            And audiophile pressings tend to have the deeper bass Digital listeners are used too. That way they can hear bass that is not only deep but also sounds real as well. And IMHO audiophile pressings have less noise but reading further down this is not true with all stylus shapes and cartridges.

            Happy listening,
            Teresa
            
            
            

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  • Re: only if YOU say so john - Awe-d-o-file 19:20:08 07/16/06 (0)
    In Reply to: only if YOU say so john posted by hifitommy on July 16, 2006 at 18:57:22:

    Detail should be easy to beat but not the noise level or noise floor. Besides, he's(origial poster) gonna get a table to make MP-3's so whats the point?

    ET
    
    

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