 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
87.203.55.231
Dear members,
The past 5 years I've been buying/collecting used records without having a turntable, with the intention of buying one when I'll have enough LPs to justify the purchase.
I now have approx. 950 LPs.
Now it is the time for me to buy a record player.
I can spend up to $6000 for a turntable, tonearm and cartridge.
The cartridge HAS TO BE an MM since my preamp (ARC SP-16) has an MM phono stage.
Can you please recommend me some good analog rigs that are easy to maintain and fuss free? Remember the cartridge has to be MM.
Thanks for your help.
PS: Almost all of my records are from 1950s, 60s, 70s from Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Tony Bennet, Ella Fitzgerald, Dina Washington, Stevie Wonder, Louis Armstrong, Dean Martin, Elvis etc.
Follow Ups:
Thank you all very much for your help.
You gave me an idea of what to look for.
In the next few weeks I will be visiting some dealers and check out analog setups, from $2k up to $6k.
Many of you suggested that it is not obligatory to spend $6k to get first class analog sound, and that is what I am going to investigate/audition and find out if that is true.
Some of you suggested that I could buy a mint 301 Garrard or Thorens 124 turntable and get good sound as well.
I am completely lost at this as I don't know how to assemble a Garrard table. Only if I had detailed instructions then maybe, but then again what about replacement parts if something goes wrong?
Anyway thanks again for your help.
If you think that there are other choices to investigate please feel free to add.
Regards.
I am big fan of Nottingham Analogue. Space Deck and Ace Space are can be had for about 3k. That leaves you plenty left to consider an MC cartridge and upgrade to your phono stage. Or, you can buy a nice MM cartridge for under 1k and spend the rest on music!!!
Michell Gyro SE
Michell HR PSU
Michell TechnoArm
Lehmann Audio Decade
Transfiguration Spirit mk III
Clearaudio Matrix Smart
Consider that you can have a pass-able arm for about $4-500.
Consider that a good cart can be had for about $2oo.Then consider that these are two things that you'll be upgrading anyway, and start here and now to count the table, the prime mover, as the foundation, the real investment.....
There's almost no avenue that's closed to you in buying a turntable, then, once you put that stuff in it's place.
What's a Vpi Tnt used--- maybe $3K ... loaded ? Ditto the Linn Sondek Lp12 .... full level upgraded .. possibly used $4K ?
A new Sme Model 10 is in the $5K-plus range.....
A Platine-Verdier (!) can often be had used btwn $6-7K ...
There are a few worldclass tables like the Verdier, the upper Sme's and the Yorke that all hover around $10K new, but manage to sell used for just above half of that.
........... Or save up and buy an EMT 930 for a bit more.
Nice neighborhood to be shopping for real estate, seems to me.
I say slam the mass amount of cash into the transport.
And do the other stuff ---- arm, cart, shelf, rack, speed-control, record-cleaning, fluids, sleeves, brushes ---------- as cheap as possible at first.Don't neglect them, but consider them as bit-players.
They all fall in line behind the table in importance, and can be brought up to higher levels gradually, and you'll love every step.
Do it some other way -- go all-bells-and-and-whistles at first ------- and you'll be looking to rebuild the house in a bit.
Build the foundation out of stone---- and the house, it's furniture and fittings, however you reconfigure--- are a always a labor of love......
One opinion. Good luck,
J.
Hi,From your record collection, it seems you would be better suited for an Ortofon SPU. Although this is a MC, all you need is a Step-up (ortofon STM-72, T-5, T20, T30 step-ups can be found on eBay for less than US$200) to go into the MM input of your ARC SP-16. Get a high mass arm like, SME 3012 or Fidelity Research FR66/64 and you should be able to give your brother-in-law's SME30/V/Koetsu a run for his money. For the TT, I suggest a non-suspended one for less fuss e.g. vintage Garrd301/401, Thorens TD124 or even a DD like a tehcnics SP10 mkII or a Denon DP-6000 (there is one on eBay going cheap)
Regards
Addicted to Tubes
Hello!I suggest keep it simple!
Get an EMPIRE 208 or 398!
It will do wonders for a MM cart.
It is simple, easy to set up, will play forever, and will perform right there with the best!
Tunes are to be enjoyed!
An EMPIRE will let you just do that!
Regards,
Darrell
Hi -- this post was supposed to be short but it keeps growing.I have 2 high output benz gliders mc cartridges and I love them both -- one is the first series 1.9mV and the other is newer 2.5 mV, both bought used.
I hope you are near a few dealers who might have a few different setups for you to check out. High output /low output is really a matter of preference and if you fall in love with a low output cartridge, you can always get a good step up device or a separate phono stage.
One advantage of a separate phono stage is that it can give you more flexibility of tt placement since one can run a longer interconnect between phono stage and preamp. I benefit from this and have the tt 8 feet away and around a corner from the rest of the stereo system.
good luck with your shopping. I can't believe you have so many lps sitting there with no table for them. You'd be surprised at how much enjoyment you can get from a properly set up down right cheap tt -- like an old AR-XA or japanese belt or direct drive model -- you can throw a good $200.00 cartridge on one of these -- and really enjoy your records. gosh, to have all those lps just sitting there! It only took me a pile of 20 to get back into vinyl.
Another reason to get a less precious first set up or at least less precious first cartridge is so that you can fiddle with it without fear. Also, I am of the sort who can't have too many turntables. Recently, I picked up a used Rega P3 with an entry level Rega cartridge and I have been lovin it. No it is not as splendiforous as my unipivot suspended table and Benz glider cart, but it rocks and it is a great little table/cart/arm which can be picked up for $400.00 or less, in my case much less.
6k is definitely a dreamy budget!!! good luck and have fun.
Frankly, your whole post feels a bit strange. That being said, why would anyone, even if they could easily afford it, drop 6K on their first table? A couple grand will get you a very nice analog set-up, including table, phono pre and cart. Start with something simple, good sounding and dependable, like a tricked out KAB 1200. If that doesn't last you a lifetime, then look at the big dog tables. Very expensive tables tend to be rather complicated and tweeky, not the kind of thing one would really want as a first table. Kind of like turning 16 and buying your first car, a Viper. Slow down!
I was thinking it was strange too. But I decided not to say anything. But since I'm here I agree about the 6k TT. Start a little lower. An MMF-7 or VPI Scout with a VDH retipped 103r through a pair of Bent Audio MU step ups will cost less than 3k. I bet it takes twice the cost to get 5% better sound.
Merle,
The past 5 years that I've been collecting Lps I had the chance to listen to some of them every now and then at my wife's brother's home. He actually has a state of the art analog rig (SME30+SMEV+Koetsu) and when we'd visiting we would listen to records. I liked so much the way music was played that I decided someday to buy a good analog front end.
So I am not unfamiliar with the sound that a good analog setup can have.
All this time I'd been saving to buy a good analog rig.
I am, a buy it once and good, kind of guy especially with the front ends.
Of course for some people $6k for analog is going to cover only the cartridge or just the turntable, but for me I think it is enough.
Why does the whole post seems strange to you?
Regards.
Hi,
if you like SME, and money is flexible.... consider a SME 10. This immediately puts you over budget, of course. A cart is a matter of personal taste, and I just love Koetsu. I have heard the Sumiko Blackbird
has a lot in common with them, and of course it's much cheaper. You should consider getting a phono stage or a step up tranny. With the kind of money you're throwing around I certainly would.Vinyl is style. I like the round decks like the 10. I have a Michell, it's round. One last thing, get a good arm.
Well, lets not say strange, just odd. For a first table, one that's really complicated can drive you nuts. If your brother in law knows analog set-up and is willing to help, then your a lucky guy. It's almost impossible nowadays to find a shop with competent people who are willing to properly set up your table. With no experiance and a very expensive table, you would kind of be left out there on your own. As simple as my Scoutmaster is, I'm still fiddling with it, trying to get everything set up correctly. I guess if your a buy it once and be done with it kind of guy, then maybe your approch is a good one. I would be scared to death with no table experiance and a 6K rig sitting in front of me. Most very expensive tables are not the "set it and forget it" type. I guess I'm just saying if your a newbi to vinyl, be VERY carefull if your spending that kind of money. Find someone who really knows their stuff to help you, your brother in law maybe? Maybe the TOTL Rega would be a good place to look? Good luck and I'd love to hear what you end up with.
.
i like that one too. the VPIs are super easy to set up. i have a scoutmaster and its a damn good table and only took me about 30min to set up. really doesnt need a lot of tinkering. try calling an expert, i've had good success and non-pushy experiences with both Venus HiFi and www.elusivedisc.comthe package deals at elusive disc are good and you'll have warranty and good customer service. the folks at Venus HiFI are masters of system synergy and will work within your budget to get you a killer set-up.
strongly recommend the VPIs, easy to set up and care for. basis makes nice tables. if you are needing an all around great cart consider the shelter 90x, if you listen to mostly rock and roll, then consider a benz.
by getting to a good dealer and listening as has been suggested below. Much wisdom, but don't go that high.You want to listen to used records vocal type pop etc. I'd even try $1000-1500 level first if I were you (MH, Pro-ject, several others with Grado or Shure m97xe or Ortofon or Sumiko BPS improved).
You have way more records than me, I've had a table for years, it is time. A Rega Table (P9 is well within your budget) with one of their own or other quality MM cartridge (Roksan, Grado, Goldring). A high output MC may also be an option. Ortofon X5 MC and Dynavector 10X5 are possible options. The built in phono stage on your preamp should sound great and will be "fuss free"" too. To clean records you might try disc doctor "quick wash" fluid. You can dry naturally with their cotton swipers, or try an inexpensive Nitty Gritty vacumm machine to dry. If you want to buy some new records Speakers corner and Classic records make some good reissues.
Kind of putting the cart before the horse wouldn't you say? Of course, that's a moot point since you already have 950 LP's.If it were me, I don't think I'd be in such a hurry to spend 6k on equipment for a vinyl front end. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE vinyl, but will you? You don't mention if you have had any previous exposure to records and all the trappings that go along with playing them.
I think I would go for more mid level stuff like one of the offerings from Music Hall, Pro-Ject or maybe Technics and save the $$ for future upgrades….after you become an addict like the rest of us. ;)
Just my opinion.
especially if your collection is mostly used. I'm absolutely delighted with my VPI-17, but there are others that may be better. The current model VPI-17 costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000, leaving plenty in your budget for a top flight table/arm/cartridge kit.
First of all, there is NO better cartridge that will reproduce those classic vocal albums that you mention with uncanny realism than the Grado series of cartridges.For a retail of $4700, you get the Aries 3 turntable from VPI, complete with their JMW-10.5i tonearm. This a new version of the great Aries turntable. The difference between the Aries and the Scout line of turntables is the footprint. You'll need a slightly larger size platform than than the Scout, but you'll be able to get a longer tonearm. This longer arm, because of its higher effective mass, will mate better with the preponderance of cartridges out there which are lighter in weight. VPI tables are very simple and reliable.
I would get, as others have suggested, a stepup device, that is, a device that will amplify a lower output cartridge so that you can use it with the moving magnet stage of the ARC. If the ARC's phono stage weren't sufficient, I would have recommended you spend money on a standalone phono stage.
I would go for the low-output Statement version of the Grado Master cartridge. I think it's a significant step up from the Sonata. The Sonata would be fine, really, for all of those records you mention. The Master will have more extended highs, and the soundstage is much more sophisticated for orchestral recordings. And Grado is famous for a mid-range that is to-die-for, something the Blackbird, nor any other sub-$1000 cartridge can match. The only cartridge line that surpasses Grado for that gorgeous mid-range is Koetsu, and they are in another price bracket.
The Grado Master retails for $800, which will leave you $500 for a stepup device. Something like one from Audio Note as well as others will make the low-output version of the Master sing. Grado also has a high-output version (Reference line), and through VPI, you can get a medium output version, but the Statement version is the bee's knees.
If you need the smaller footprint of the Scout line (like the Super Scoutmaster), make sure you get the JMW-9 Signature version of the tonearm, rather than the standard version. It is a heavier version of the arm and will work with a wider variety of cartridges.
Can't say how it mates with the JMW, but I have a Reference on a Sumiko Premier and VPI HW-MK III. I listen to a lot of the same vocal type stuff as you list, and the cartridge sings.
and you can go with the higher output version. I'd skip the separate phono stage too. Many on here seem to be selling the SP-16 phono stage short! I went from MC back to MM and haven't regretted a minute of it.
I'm not selling the ARC phono stage short. Precisely the opposite -- adding a stepup device allows the inboard stage to work. It's just that dynamics and low-level detail are actually greatly improved with the Statement series of Grado cartridges. Compared to either of the higher output versions of the Grados (1.5mV and 4.5mV), the Statement series of Grados only use 7 feet of wire, compared to 125 feet for the higher output versions.Regarding compatibility with the JMW arms, well, I don't think they're a good match with the standard JMW-9. But Harry Weisfeld seems to think that they are a good match with the Signature version, and he has been recommending Grados with the 10 and 12 arms for years!
I am using the 4.5 mv high output Reference Master and it has way more detail, better dynamics and more range from top to bottom than my Denon DL 103R cartridge.Actually it makes the Denon sound bland and the Denon is actually a very neutral and musical cartridge.
I have owned a Koetsu and it did not go as low or as high as the Grado although its midrange was better.
For 800 dollars this Grado is an absolute steal! I would love to try the low output version to see how it sounds. Grado says it sounds even better. I gotta hear it!
Just curious which will have the best mid range...nearly curious enough to get a 2nd hand Grado to check
My TT is better than your TT
The phono amp is a critical part of the components for good quality sound. You should look at a separate one which should give you a much better phono amp. You can still buy a great table/cartridge combo with the money left. A High Ouput Moving Coil (HOMC) is an option into a MM cartridge phono amp. Also, a separate step-up could get you a system that you could use Low Output Moving Coil (LOMC) if you so desired.Find a dealer and go listen to a few different set-ups before you spend $6K. The recommendations here are quality but everyone's preferences are different. I may rave about vanilla ice cream (and be perfectly right) but you might prefer chocolate (and be perfectly right for you). It's probably worth a weekend outing if you aren't near a good dealer. Have fun. You should end up with a really nice system.
I would go with a VPI Scoutmaster, Sumiko Blackbird cartridge, VPI SDS motor control (optional), VPI interconnect, and land squarely in audio heaven first shot.The comments about low output MCs being better than high output MCs is a very broad statement and simply not true in the case of the Blackbird. It matches the compliance of the JMW9 arm perfectly, sounds fabulous and is extremely quiet in the groove. It will match up with your MM phono stage with no problem. The Blackbird is highly recommended by Mike at VPI. I took his advice and have never regretted it. It has synergy with the arm.
Based on your desire for fuss free, the above combo will do it. I would even recommend calling Mike at VPI, giving him your budget and taking his advice (totally).
I'd go with one of the established US makers, or a classic Brit product such as Linn or SME (the SME will stretch your budget if bought new).
VPI or Basis will last you forever and sound great. You'll never have to think about them if you don't want to. With apologies to the extremely clever DIY music lovers on this forum, this is the way to go if all you want to do is spin records, first thing in the morning and last thing at night, like you were a kid again. I've had a Basis 2500 and a Graham arm for 7 trouble- free years now, and I say without hesitation it was just about the best purchase I ever made.
Best,
P
Heck, if you can spend $6K on a TT, tonearm, cart, you can allocate $1K of that for a phono stage and eliminate the MM/MC limitation and still get a great set-up. Note that I prefer MMs, but I thought it strange that you'd limit yourself to MMs when a separate phono stage will fit in your budget and probably be better/more flexible than the built-in phono stage you have.Having said that, if *I* had that budget and HAD to spend all of it I would probably second the recommendation to roll your own and spend it as follows:
Buy the best possible Garrard 301 or Thorens TD124 you can find. For $2K you can get a mint/near-mint one.
Spend $1K for a great custom plinth - design it yourself to match your tastes/other gear/shelves/etc.
I would allocate the remaining $3K for the tonearm and cartridge combination of your choice. With that budget you have a lot of options.
The vintage tables I mention will sound great, look great, appreciate in value, and will probably outlast you. And this way you'll have a unique personalized rig rather than some mass-produced, utilitarian, product.
Alberto
with a vintage deck/custom plinth, etc.
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
With a little patience you can find a clean 301 or 124 that will be ready to go with no fuss for many years while at the same time kicking the ass soundwise of anything in his price range including Rega, VPI Scout etc (ask me how I know) You do need patience to find the right one though.
/
I started with a improperly set up TD124 with a 3009 & v15 that I bought at a garage sale for $15.00. I loved it, but was young and easily influenced when one of my freinds (an"Audiophile")convinced me a rega would sound better than the old 60's Thorens. To make a long story short I sold it on ebay for just over $700. With the proceeds I bought a Rega p3 with a super elys cartridge which sounded good but of course I wasn't quite satisfied. I bought a dynavector dv20h and things got a little better. Feeling the need to upgrade yet again I bought a Scout. Very nice, but somethings missing isn't it? I really wanted what that first 124 did but without the noise. I bought another 124 learned to work on it by asking ?'s on this forum (thanks pete fowler) Then I got another, two is always better than one right? Then I stumbled onto a 301 which in my case right out of the box is dead silent with perfect speed & what I think is superior sound and looks. I havent heard an EMT yet but my 301 feels like the end of the search.
And I'm glad your search is over. Never heard a Garrard back- to back with my table, but I've heard them lots of times in Japan. They always sounded good, but didn't make me want to trade in my Basis.The passion they inspire on this site are making me want to get one of my own, and run two tables. If I can find an affordable one ready to go, that is, as I havent the skills, time, or patience to restore and tweak a table.Enjoy, and regards,
P
Right you are Henry. My bad.But ... I can't help it. For me: NO FUSS == NO FUN.
With vinyl you'll have to deal with some fuss at some point: stylus and record cleaning, set-up, stylus replacement, etc.
If I had $6K and wanted no fuss I'd probably buy a top of the line CD player :-).
Alberto
I'd be DIYing my brains out as we speak. Alas, one-handed DIYing is not what it's cracked up to be.
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
Henry, just a word to relay that the Diy biz isn't all it's cracked up to be here at Va...Tonight I was driving myself berserk moving parts between my two Garrard 301's and trying to avoid losing it (my nut) when a 'circlip' went flying across the room every 15 minutes and one motor wants to whisper 'FFT, FFT, .... FFt!' while the other one has spring mounts that want to follow the Circlips on their circumnavigation of the apartment but I can't afford to stop so I scribble on a post-it "circlip" so I can continue without forgetting which motor wires go to the switch and which go to the 220v straps and take my time in the morning to search for the tiny circlips, but the thing is that the lamp I've got on the dining room table to illuminate all of this has got a dodgy switch so each time the unfortunate impact of mis-measured adjustment-force sends a circlip or spring flying ................ the light goes out .
... Course I've been meaning to fix that, simple really, but that would mean forgetting which table had the better eddy-current brake --or not--- and that can be problematic cause they're actually a pretty strong magnet which end up capturing some of the springs and washers and circlips and ephemera that have been flying around, but they hide them in the least obvious place-- right inside the turntable you're working on , and if my eyeglasses were within reach maybe I'd have the vaguest notion but the light keeps blinking, and .........
Well, you get the picture. Diying is a great thing,,,
ONCE YOU'RE DONE WITH IT AND BRAGGING ABOUT HOW EASY IT WAS.
J.
...is the one thing an avid DIY person needs have to be able to fully enjoy the process of the work...It took me a long time of scratching up my Wife's dinning room tables or freezing in the garage to come to that realization though.
I now have a workshop with lots of flat surfaces at a proper working height, LOTS of LIGHT and fully equipped with test instruments and gear. I no longer have to go hunting for cir-clips in shag (grin!).
--
Al GTravelin' light; It's the only way to fly - J.J. Cale
Hey, where's the challenge in that ?That would be way too easy.
J.
"Please take my advice..."and in another song he gives this gem: "A man needs a maid."
There's your second hand. '-)
Tom
You might also want to look into the non-mainstream manufacturers like Scheu (scheu-analog.de), or if you're more adventurous, pick up an idler-wheel table such as the Garrard 301 or 401 (or Lenco or Rec-o-kut), choose an arm and assemble your own. Since you waited so long to make the TT purchase, if you have any kind of woodworking skills (or have some local friends who do), this might give you a lot greater bang for your buck than going the heavily-marketed VPI route. There are lots of threads on this forum from folks who have gone the DIY route.
First, your cart does not HAVE to be an MM. You can use a high output MC into the MM input on your ARC. You also could run a low output MC if you run it through a SUT (step up transformer) Denon makes a serviceable one for just over $100, the AU-300CL. There are dozens of table/arm/cartridge combinations in the $6K or less range when you look at it that way.
A few suggestions:
VPI Scoutmaster/JMW-9/Sumiko Blackbird (HO MC)
VPI scoutmaster/JMW-9/Dyna 20XH (HO MC)
VPI Scoutmaster/JMW-9/Denon DL-S1(LO MC)/AU-300CL
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
You could get a step up as Henry H suggests. Low output MC's are better than high output (here come the flames but it's true).
You might consider a Mitchell turntable (I'm biased but you can't beat good engineering and the self pumping Mitchell bearing is one of the best in the business) plus you can put just about any arm on it (by ordering the correct baseplate) and it sounds great. You could buy a a Gyro, a rega arm or something more exotic, a step up transformer and a Denon or Audio Technica OC9 and still have change for protractors, carbon brush, spirit level, zerostat, test record etc.Whatever you do, set up with care and enjoy. I envy you !
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
I just looked on the badge and you're right !
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
Nottingham Spacedeck with AceSpace tonearm and Grado Reference Sonata MM cartridge. I brought it home, set it up (in spite of Nottingham's sparse instructions) and have just listened ever since, This table/tonearm comes with integrated tonearm cables so you don't need any additional cabling. I am considering an upgrade to the Grado Master MM in the near future.BTW, you exhibited alot more patience than I did when it came to finally spinning vinyl. An audiophile friend had been trying to convince me for a couple of years (thanks again Chris Thornton)but suggested I acquire around 100 lp's first. I collected about 5 albums before I got my rig.
Enjoy and happy listening!
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
