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In Reply to: RE: Actually no - mofi trick people into buying a product they would never have bought posted by Goober58 on August 07, 2022 at 02:37:18
Sorry but that is Bullsh**! The same disgruntled owners of those Mofi records were, for years, thoroughly enjoying those same records that you say they had no interest in owning. So that's bullsh**. If you are actually an audiophile you don't buy and thoroughly enjoy something "you have no interest in owning." These are audiophile records. It is about sound qaulity. If the percieved sound quality wasn't there *then* the interest wouldn't have been there and the series would have died a long time ago. Two weeks ago if you asked those same people why they own Mofi one steps and why they love those records so much they would have told you because they sound great.
And please don't give me this other bullsh** about provenance. Nobody that I have ever seen on any audiophile message board has ever brought up the subject of "provenance" when it came to all analog mastering chains before this story broke. No one, ever. The cult devotion to all analog mastering chains has ALWAYS been based on the misinformed belief that it was an audibly better chain and that the difference was quite substantial to the end result.
If they had zero interest in owning those records it was because they bought into the bullsh** passed off as basic knowledge that anything digital in the mastering chain actually matters and matters a great deal.
But they sure didn't have zero interest in owning those records when they actually owned them but didn't know there was a completely audibly transparent digital step in the mastering chain. They loved those reocrds then. Huge edition runs at $125.00 were selling out in presales everytime. Everytime! So don't tell me they didn't want them. They bought them, they played them, they loved them. They just thought wrongly that anything digital in the mastering chain would ruin the sound and they found out the hard way they were wrong and they are butt hurt about it. This IS about their egos and about their massive time invenstment, emotional, and financial investement was placed in a lie pushed by the audiophile media, other audiophile labels and other audiophiles who drank the Koolaid.
Follow Ups:
This is basic stuff - MFSL has wanted us to believe it was Gain 2, One-Step, Supervinyl and 45 RPM that was leading to the quality of their products. And here you are and the MFSL engineers too suddenly arguing that it's the DSD mastering that's been responsible for the great sound. Why bother telling us the truth while they've promoted one trademark or another as the reason for the great sound.
I'm very much at a loss for your (and others) attacks on the all analog mindset as a defense of what has happened here. It puzzles me - I would just assume let the topic rest but your nonsense inspires me.
"MFSL has wanted us to believe it was Gain 2, One-Step, Supervinyl and 45 RPM that was leading to the quality of their products."
Yes!!! All of which they use and all of which has a real sonic impact on their records.
"And here you are and the MFSL engineers too suddenly arguing that it's the DSD mastering that's been responsible for the great sound."
2.points.1. It ain't sudden for me. I've been preaching the value of the Plangent system for some time now and have been a strong advocate for that replacing any kind of direct cutting from the analog tape. 2.It's not an either/or. there is no switch in play here. The Mofi engineers believe the advantage of a digital step is 1. transparency so nothing is lost 2. utter freedom to ste their mastering moves and do direct comparisons between those mastering moves and the unaltered original digital copy. Should be pretty obvious how that is a big advantage over cutting straight from the analog tape. Although I think I have heard that a lot of mastering engineers do this anyway even if they go back to the tape to do the final cut. The advantages of using a digital step are real and are seperate to the advantages of one step plating, 45 rpm and their proprietary cutting system. It'snot an either/or proposition.
"Why bother telling us the truth while they've promoted one trademark or another as the reason for the great sound."
Do you care about ad copy or real world mastering techniques that make a difference?
"I'm very much at a loss for your (and others) attacks on the all analog mindset as a defense of what has happened here."
It is not a defense for what happened. But it is an attack on an audio mythology that is IMO holding back progress and pressuring the reissue labels to make inferior choices.
" Do you care about ad copy or real world mastering techniques that make a difference? "
The topic is ad copy not "real world mastering techniques that make a difference". So convenient for you to obfuscate the two.
" It is not a defense for what happened. But it is an attack on an audio mythology that is IMO holding back progress and pressuring the reissue labels to make inferior choices. "
The attack on the all analog brigade is a strawman defense for an indefensible situation. Just more obfuscation.
ad copy sure isn't the topic *I* raised in *my post* that you responded to. Maybe you should go back and give it a careful read. you don't get to revise the content of *that post* to suit your argument. *That* would be a classic strawman.
Edits: 08/07/22
No your's and sadly most opinions in the article (after a 2nd read) seem to rely on the same all analog strawman to justify the lies.I suppose in their defense, there has been no effort by MoFi or Music Direct, at least as that I've seen, to use that strawman.
I agree with Jamie in that I wish MoFi would have came clean from the get go about their digital technology. But they didn't instead they choose to push their trademark analog technologies as their SOTA and as the reason their records sound so good. Gotta seriously wonder now how much of that is pure hype. I'm not an all analog guy but really someone who feels uncomfortable about being bamboozled. See what I mean a little trust goes a long way.
What's at stake here, at least IMO, as someone who is not bias'd toward vinyl colorations as you have claimed to be, is the potential for SACD playback to be better than the much more expensive vinyl reissues and even regular CDs that could sound better than the original vinyl.
Edits: 08/07/22
If you think I am trying to justify lies then you aren't getting my point. This is what Jamie said that I think should be the bigger discussion but instead is being dodged by the true believers in all analog mastering chains. "He understands why (mofi) didn't (reveal the digital step). "(mofi) was terrified of being attacked by analog-or-bust audiophiles."
"The other part that bothers them is that they've been listening to digital all along and they're highly invested in believing that any digital step will destroy their experience. And they're wrong." IMO *THAT* is the elephant in the room that all these angry vinylphiles are trying to ignore. It isn't about defending Mofi. Like Jamie I *understand* why they did it but I am not defending it. I am taking issue with the destructive force the audiophile myths have become.
Edits: 08/07/22
I don't believe for one minute they were worried about being attacked by (lol, didn't someone say eviscerated by) analog or bust audiophiles. More likely in spite of the fear mongering they were mostly worried about losing the analog or bust audiophiles business.So they believe any digital step will destroy their experience - that fact even if they enjoyed the DSD mastering and were fooled by it doesn't in any way make up for or in anyway diminish the ad copy mischief.
What starts out as an attempt to swindle has turned into an attack and blame on towards those who were being swindled. Go figure?
Instead of standing by these fellow audiophiles who have been so dastardly swindled, for some yet understood reason you (Jamie on the other hand sells digital media so I understand his purpose) feel compelled to give them a face kick for good measure.
Edits: 08/07/22
Clearly we see things very differently. And don't forget, I actually bought most of those one steps and dozens of other MoFi records with a digital step. According to you I'm the victim here. I'm the one who has been "swindled" out of literally thousands of dollars. And yet I don't feel swindled.
As for standing by my fellow audiophiles...-.. f*** that. They need to stop believing in bull**** and stop creating an environment that is counter productive to the goal of better sound. So so yes, I'm all for giving them a proverbial kick the face.
Whether you understand it or not I am results focused person. I don't ever give credence to ad copy so I never feel betrayed by it. I want better sound and I am happy when I get it. MoFi records, digital step and all have contributed to that goal. These all analog cultists have been an actual obstacle to that goal. I'm happy to give them a close up look at the bottom of my shoe.
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