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Hello. Anyone have experience to share with the VPI analog drive system (ADS)? If yes, which table (particularly with an HW19 III) was it used with? Effect on musical performance? Issues with noise, hum, placement sensitivity?
Follow Ups:
It is driving a VPI Prime and there are no issues to report on it. It is dead reliable and keeps the speed as constant as you are likely to want, or hear.Ed
PS. The ADS drives the VPI Prime via a HRX pulley and triple drive belts.
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 11/06/21
If you go to VPI's forum, there are a number of threads that discuss the issues with the ADS, primarily an audible buzzing from the power transformers, a lack of adjustability near the center detente and the lack of stability with time and temp. IMO, it was an ill-conceived attempt to do something with all analog circuitry that is best done with a crystal controlled source and digital circuits. The designer of the ADS has since left VPI and AFAIK, VPI have never corrected the problems.
I've auditioned one already on a friend's VPI Titan , it's quite good was easy to use . Does not overheat , my friend also has an SDS to power his HR-X mag drive platter . It seems in his system it does not sound different from the SDS , no over heating , no speed drift . I was bias w/ the SDS but when we used the Titan it's ok .
Edits: 10/29/21
I came across this post the other day:
http://vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13319
He has installed it on a VPI HW-19 with photos.
The interesting bit is this:
"I found that many regard the SDS as superior to the ADS, but I viewed this as typical internet banter. What I did know is that either would set me back in the four figure range. I continued to explore TT speed control devices, including the Walker, Rega and Music Hall units, and came across Phoenix Engineering. His design and utility appealed to me and I was disappointed to find he was out of business. I used HIFI shark to look for his devices used (also around $1000), along with the ADS or SDS, but was unable to acquire any, which was ultimately a blessing. I was delighted to find Phoenix had risen from the ashes, was now aligned with SOTA turntables and was offering the Total Eclipse package, which included a speed controller with separate tachometer and a new and far more quiet, powerful and sophisticated motor. All this for about the same price as the other options."
https://sotaturntables.com/products/total-eclipse-package/
Edits: 10/29/21 10/29/21 10/29/21 10/29/21 10/29/21 10/29/21 10/29/21
I remember him here years ago and his 3 phase motor, and he was a real blast of a guy. Knew his stuff!
Lew is correct. Mark developed the first 3 phase drive for vintage TT motors, as far as I know. The results with my ROK Papst motor deck are exceptional! I am very grateful for his work.
Mike
Name I remember from Phoenix is NOT Mark Kelly. Bill Carlin is Phoenix, I believe.
Other than that, the above is all correct.
.
Which works similarly to the VPI product. I use an Eagle sans the optional tach with my Scout using 300 RPM motor. It is different in that there is a larger power supply box (not visible behind TT on bench) and separate small controller (seen under Scout) connected via cable.
Musical performance? More consistent pitch especially noticeable on solo piano. No issues with noise or hum. I use a shielded aftermarket power cord from controller feeding motor.
It also provides switch selectable speed control from 33.3 to 45. No longer have to move the belt on the pulley.
I have no experience with VPI's ADS, but if you want the best possible performance, you should replace your motor with a true 3-phase AC synchronous motor driven by a 3-phase generator with automatic tachometer speed control. This system was developed by Phoenix Engineering and I have one of their prototypes on my Sota Millennia Vacuum turntable . This 3-phase tachometer controlled system really improved the sound quality from my turntable in addition to lowering the noise floor to virtually total silence. I was so impressed with the improvement that I contacted the Sota turntable company and introduced them to Phoenix Engineering. SOTA became equally impressed with the 3-phase system and decided to collaborate with Phoenix Engineering to began manufacturing the system for sale to the public. The 3-phase motor system is essentially a drop-in replacement for many VPI turntables as well as for SOTA's own turntables.I don't know the cost of VPI's ADS, but the complete Eclipse 3-phase motor system with tachometer speed control costs only $1100. I seriously doubt you will ever find an improvement of this magnitude for such a reasonable price.
Best regards,
John Elison
Edits: 10/28/21
With some painstaking adjustments, I got the Sota Eclipse to perform well..... Except I wish the motor wouldn't run so darned hot after playing just a few LPs........
@Todd Krieger-
What adjustments did you have to make? Care to elaborate?
Have you measured the temp of the motor (a BBQ thermometer works fine for this)? With the reduced voltage level set to -2, it should be ~110°F which will feel warm, but not 'hot'. At reduced voltage setting of -4, it will run even cooler. If it runs much hotter than 110°F, something is not right.
A couple of things wrt to the motors and temp:
The Hurst motor has windings that are wound on plastic bobbins and are thermally insulated from the case. Hurst specs the motor to operate at +30°C above ambient temp or 122°F, assuming ambient is 68°F, although the windings will run considerably higher because they can't dissipate the heat build up.
The SOTA motor has its windings in direct contact with the case, so the heat you are feeling is the motor dissipating its internal heat build up. FYI, the SOTA motor is rated for 85°C (185°F) max, although you would not want to run it at that temp. It uses precision ball bearings at both the top and bottom of the rotor instead of Hurst's single friction bearing so not only is it quieter and can handle higher radial loads without bearing wear, but it can operate at much higher temps.
I wonder if your platter has excessive bearing drag. When you remove the belt and spin the platter by hand does it keep spinning a while or does it seem to stop fairly quickly?
My motor runs a bit warm, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. Of course, I don't have the same system you have. Mine is a prototype and it may use a different motor than yours. There were two different motors used in the prototype systems. Mine also might have some different electronics because its 3-phase amplifier that drives the motor is a separate component from the 3-phase generator/controller.
You might want to contact SOTA to find out if your motor temperature presents a problem.
Good luck,
John Elison
My experience is that the SOTA system is light years better than any of the VPI boxes. Even in VPI circles the ADS is considered not ready for primetime.
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