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A while ago I purchased a Soundsmith Zephyr MK III cartridge used on Ebay instead of sending my Denon 103R to Soundsmith for an upgrade. What I didn't realize was that the Seduction preamp does not have enough gain for the Zephyr which is a Moving Iron cartridge and requires 38 - 44 dB of gain.
I do love the sound of the cartridge and am looking to keep it in my system.
I purchased a Schiit Mani as a temporary - possibly permanent solution, but after listening to it the first day I think I may need to go back to a tube preamp. I am willing to build one from a kit as I did that with the foreplay. The new phono preamp from Bottlehead the Eros starts at $750. I was hoping to get the kind of performance I want for less than that but if it is the best option I might be willing to spend the money.
I am looking for some guidance and suggestions from the community before I make a decision.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Follow Ups:
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I found a used Soundsmith MMP3 for sale and decided to purchase that and see how I like it. If it isn't quite what I am looking for I can build a tube phono preamp and then sell the soundmith afterwards. The Schiit mani can go to the girlfriend's set up.
What a great boyfriend you must be giving your girlfriend Schitt you don't want.
"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture." ― Thelonious Sphere Monk
Cpwill
Fitted a Simple Dact Attenuator and Built a Le Pacific Phono stage.. a few years back .. a Simple inexpensive DIY project with few parts. . Made my Bottlehead sound like a Tin can on a string.
Time to smell the Roses and move on.
Edits: 07/28/20
Can you tell me a little more about Le Pacific and how you built it? I have been considering the Boozhound JFet phono preamp. would that be similar and out perform the seduction?
So, what's wrong with a Soundsmith phono preamp. They make three of them ranging in price from $600 to $1200. The Soundsmith MMP4 phono preamp has 43-dB gain and costs $600. The Soundsmith MMP3 is slightly better and also has 43-dB gain for $800.
Seems like a no-brainer to me!
Good luck,
John Elison
I just bought a used MMP3 for $440. If I am not satisfied I can build a tube preamp and then sell the MMP3.
Thanks for the advice.
Well, I have no idea how the MMP3 sounds, but I suspect it should be compatible with your Soundsmith cartridge. It certainly fits your budget, too.
As for me, I need a truly topnotch phono preamp. I bought a Pass Labs XOno in 2003 and it simply blew me away. I've never heard anything better although I did build a Vacuum Tube Audio PH16 phono stage kit four years ago. The kit cost around $700 if I remember correctly, but it doesn't sound as good as my $4200 XOno.
I have a couple of audio buddies that live near me and we get together periodically for listening sessions. They both have high-end systems and after hearing my XOno, they both bought Pass Labs phono stages. The XOno has been out of production for 10 years or longer so they each bought an XP-17, which is the current equivalent. These are all solid state phono preamps, but they sound spectacular. Unfortunately, they're price is a bit higher than you want to spend.
Good luck with your Soundsmith MMP3. I hope it meets your requirements.
Best regards,
John Elison
Yes that would be a great option if I decide to go solid state. I also recently replaced the Bottlehead foreplay preamp with an LDR volume control. I am loving the detail and nuance I am hearing especially on great recordings but I am missing what the tubes did to add depth and roundness which was great for recordings that are not as good. the Seduction does give some of that fullness and was thinking that I might prefer a tube preamp.
But I am open to persuasion.
just discontinued as full kit very recently, but circuit board still available I presume with parts list.
54 DB OF GAIN, ALL TUBE.
sex after 70 is like trying to play pool with a rope
Thanks for the link. Do you own one?
I will investigate it more but would appreciate any thoughts you have about it.
That variable gain preamp is very new product from Bruce, maybe even in the last week or so. It will be my next purchase if and when I make another electronics purchase. Very intriguing product. Seems also very innovative which is Transcendent Sound trademark I would say.
I own Bruce's Grounded Grid preamp (I built from kit), his balanced power filter (also built from kit), and his T8-LN 25wpc OTL tube amp.
And I own two books Bruce has authored on tube amp theory and circuit design.
I recently have been running my main system sans preamp: usb DAC to Musical Fidelity tube buffer to Creek passive attenuator to the OTL amp.
Speakers are Ref3a DeCapo I...
sex after 70 is like trying to play pool with a rope
One option would be to sell the Soundsmith and get a cartridge that works with the Seduction. perhaps have Soundsmith upgrade the Denon 103R and go back to the step up transformers and the seduction preamp. Or buy a different cartridge.
If not, they increase the gain by a few dB taking it into the 40db range. You might make a call to Queen Aileen and see if she can hook you up with them. They also improve the sound of the Seduction, and the cost is, relatively, minimal.
Stop drinking the Kool Aid .. Kids.
...a word in all caps somehow makes it true, LOL. Maybe lay off the gin and start drinking a little Kool Aide, it might clear the head.
maybe the OP could've done a little home work on this himself
like the Bottlehead forums as a WAG?
ah well, at least he got you guys to discuss beverages
which I strongly recommend you do not imbibe
carry on,
Yes I do.
...turn up the volume is the issue you are having that you have excessive noise at the volume that you listen at, or are you uncomfortable with where the volume control is?Perhaps something that the Musical Surroundings Phonomena will allow you to pick the gain that you want and still load at 47k.
It's probably not fair to paint all solid state phono preamps with a broad brush because you don't like the Mani. It is a very entry level phono stage and not in the class of the Seduction, IMHO.
Edits: 07/28/20
I also spoke with bottlehead and they said the seduction needs a higher output cartridge and recommended the Eros kit as it is designed to handle a lower output. The soundsmith only puts out 2.4mV
It gets noisy as you increase the volume. You can hear the noise floor of the seduction. It also does not sound as good as it should because of the mismatched gain.
Nt
Have you thought about getting a Step up transformer (also known as a SUT) or a MC head amp that plugs in between your Bottoeneck and your turntable's own IC's?
If not, I'd suggest you look around the internet (Google is your friend) and see what is out there, especially tubes if that matters to you since you have a tubed phono pre.
Just a suggestion and you may well be able to make it all work relatively inexpensively too.
Good luck!
Was that a subconscious slur against the Seduction? :-) I was thinking a step up also, as the Seduction might take a few bucks to beat. I've been very happy with the Lundahl I built from K&K.
Can't do a step up with the soundsmith according to the manufacturer. I would have to change cartridges to keep the seduction.
LOL, I totally didn't even realize I'd done that. :-P
I DID mean Bottlehead. BTW, they are made right here in Paulsbo WA, used to be I want to say, Vashon Island but may be mistaken.
Anyway, I've known about them now for years but have never bought any of their products.
Somehow, the OP heard or was told by Peter Lederman about not being able to use SUTS with their carts, but I don't see how a head amp won't work with a low output MI cart though.
Have you or did you check on the internal resistance of the Sound Smith MI type cartridges? Perhaps they have a high-ish internal resistance which could be a problem if you interpose a SUT between the cartridge and the phono inputs, depending on how high the internal resistance actually is. Also, for some of his models, perhaps Peter was thinking that the phono stage would be overloaded by the signal after being boosted by the average SUT.
No, never did think to check but later on, I realized the head unit may well be similar to SUTS in terms if its own resistance and how that affects the cart itself.
later upgraded it with the C4S kit. It was a good phono pre.
I don't use tube gear anymore, so it was sold long ago.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
I was using step up transformers with the Denon 103R. The Soundsmith can't be used with transformers.
Have you even tried a HEAD AMP instead, not the same as a Step Up Transformer.
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