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In Reply to: RE: Ortofon 2M Black to replace Grado Platinum Reference ? posted by suretyguy on August 09, 2017 at 15:29:08
I disagree. I found the Bronze too bright and lacking bottom end weight compared to the more overall balanced Black.
See ya. Dave
Follow Ups:
Well, as I indicated, I was just reporting what at least 2 dealers said. As I also said, I haven't ever heard the Bronze-or the Black for that matter.
The Black got 30% more votes in Fremer's cartridge comparison than the Bronze. This was a blind test.
As usual, too much reliance on numbers.
Michael Fremer may be more skilled than most at adjusting the SRA of the Black's finicky Shibata stylus than most people. Especially for a single test disk.
That doesn't mean, necessarily, that the Black is a better choice for most people. It could be that without continual readjusting the Bronze will sound better on a variety of disks.
We only know that more people " preferred" the Black but not the criteria that they used to reach this decision. Neither do we have we any details of their suitabilty to make any such judgement in this sphere nor the equipment that they used in making the judgement and whether or not it may or may not have had a bearing on their decision.
I am not saying that the Black is not "better" (whatever that means) than the Bronze, just that some say the latter is preferable musically. As many audio enthusiasts seem to be only concerned with detail, bass and little else then the criterion of musical ability may or may not have influenced the survey's results.
I find such surveys of superficial general interest only. I would not give them greater credence and would certainly not use them to influence a buying decision.
nt
> I find such surveys of superficial general interest only.
> I would not give them greater credence and would certainly not use them to influence a buying decision.
I agree! If I were going to buy a new cartridge, I'd buy an Audio Technica. The Audio Technica AT-ART7 is my favorite cartridge at the moment, but if I decide to buy a MM cartridge, I'd probably buy one of the new Audio Technica MM cartridges. Of course, the Audio Technica AT150ANV got the most votes in Fremer's cartridge test, which pretty much coincides with my opinion of Audio Technica. However, I think I'd go for one of the new Audio Technica cartridges.
Thanks,
John Elison
..surprised me actually based on my experience with the AT150MLX. The ATN150MLX stylus is the official "replacement" for the 150ANV body and the AT150MLX cartridge I bought was from the generation after the ANV had been released so that the nominal VTF range had shifted up to the same range as the ANV compared to the original ATN150MLX styli I have.
The frequency response charts between the 150MLX and the ANV are identical - the 150MLX body is substantially similar (apart from the price and the cantilever material for the stylus) and the AT MM "House Sound" seems consistent across the MM bodies I've measured so I would expect it to have the same emphasis around 12kHz which gives a very detailed "hifi" sound, but can be a little fatiguing to my ears. This is when loaded at the recommended 47k and I choose around 130pF for the total capacitive load.
I guess it all depends on individual preferences.
I bought one of the new bodies to test out so I can compare to my older bodies and see if the frequency response characteristic is similar.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
You can hear that or did you measure that? To my old ears, such a peak would be irrelevant or inaudible unless it was dramatic in amplitude. To me, "fatiguing" means there's a treble emphasis anywhere above 2kHz.
Good God, again I'll say I was only reporting what a couple of dealers said to me. I don't need a barrage of information to prove or disprove anything to me. I suppose these dealers who offered their opinions need a hundred lashes with expensive cables to whip them into shape.
What I find fascinating about this is that those dealers would actually make more money if they pushed the Black rather than the Bronze.
Sorry! I didn't mean to upset you. This is a public forum and I was just providing truthful information to those interested in Ortofon 2M cartridges. Personally, I could care less. I'm into moving coils exclusively at the moment. Furthermore, if I were interested in MM cartridges, I'd probably start with the new line of Audio Technica MM cartridges.
Perhaps your dealer friends were telling the truth regarding their experiences and perhaps the 2M Bronze sounded better in their particular vinyl front-ends. After all, 60 people voted for the Bronze as the best sounding cartridge in Fremer's listening test. It's just that 84 people voted for the Black. Go figure!
Sorry!
John Elison
My earlier post apparently was deleted, I suppose because it could have been construed as politically provocative , so I'm going to try this again.
"I was just providing 'truthful' information to those interested in Ortofon 2M cartridges."
"Perhaps your dealer friends were telling the "truth" regarding their experiences..."
"Truth" is a difficult concept to establish in an area as prone to subjectivism as the audiophile world. To paraphrase, one man's truth is another man's poison.
> "Truth" is a difficult concept to establish in an area as prone to subjectivism as the audiophile world.
It depends on what you're talking about.
When I said that I was just providing truthful information, I was referring to the fact that I was truthfully reporting the results of Fremer's listening test, which had been previously published by Fremer. There should be no question about my use of the word "truthfully" in this scenario. Furthermore, there is no subjectivism involved in my objective statement. ;-)
I was not stating that one cartridge was better than another like your dealer friends. I was simply reporting the factual voting results from a listening test conducted by Michael Fremer.
Best regards,
John Elison
a gnat's ass whisker?
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
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