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In Reply to: RE: Accuracy and realism. Two of the most misguided ideas in all of audio. posted by Analog Scott on August 02, 2017 at 21:33:46
I think you misunderstood what I wrote....
I'm in total agreement (from a philosophical perspective) that the act of "recording" an event is never going to be identical to the live aural experience since that involves so many aspects of the brain.
However, in the context of the "act" of recording...the process of recording is to accurately record what the mic is picking up. Accuracy of the original "experience" is a completely different matter which is down to the skill of the tonmeister to position the mics correctly and is unlikely to be equivalent. However, it is the mastering engineer and cutting engineer who affect the sound of the final product. So the final product is far removed from what the mics were picking up in some cases. In the case of vinyl, the deviation from the original will always be far greater. Digital recording of an existing recording on a tape or record these days results in a "copy" that is undetectably different with equipment of a suitable technical quality. In the past this may not have been true, but certainly now the technology is very affordable and within reach of consumers.
Those who insist that digital is "inferior" usually lack the technical knowledge required to understand the process or base their opinions on experience gained on inferior equipment. Those who insist vinyl is "more accurate" clearly lack the technical understanding of the cutting and replay process.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Follow Ups:
You base all your conclusions based on the premise we know all there is about energy and music and can measure it. I realize this is not what you want to hear. It is no fun for science to be told you can not explain the infinite in the finite.
All the debate is silly just listen. Most people can be sold on about anything, including numbers. The only conclusion I can come to is most people have no real exposure to live instruments, can not hear, or do not care that much.
Enjoy the ride
Tom
Do you think one needs exposure to real instruments to have a legitimate opinion on soudn quality? I don't
Only if you want it to sound like real music. Now if rap and hip hop is your thing you may have a point. Even using a electric guitar, for reference, is a moving target. Well I have to admire you honesty. For me I want the French horn to sound like a French horn. With out being exposed to one, I would have a hard time knowing if my play back system was even close.
Enjoy the ride
Tom
This realism thing again. What does a French horn sound like? That's a trick question by the way but feel free to answer it.
I want music to sound good. Real isn't on my radar. "Real" can sound real bad. Talk about a moving target, realism is the poster child for moving targets as any kind of reference for audio.
I understood what you wrote. I just wanted to express my personal views on accuracy and realism in audio since you mentioned them. But since you made a thoughtful post on the subject I will offer some responses to your points.
"However, in the context of the "act" of recording...the process of recording is to accurately record what the mic is picking up."It certainly can be but it doesn't *have to* be. There are options.
"Accuracy of the original "experience" is a completely different matter which is down to the skill of the tonmeister to position the mics correctly and is unlikely to be equivalent."Tonmeister has nothing to do with it. The experience of live music is so intrinsically different than the experience of audio recording and playback that the comparisons are absurd. Truly apples to oranges.
"However, it is the mastering engineer and cutting engineer who affect the sound of the final product. So the final product is far removed from what the mics were picking up in some cases."That is true. The final commerical release often gives us an electrical signal that is very different than the ones that came off the mics. I'd say this is almost always true and for many reasons.
"In the case of vinyl, the deviation from the original will always be far greater."No, not "always." Not even close. Deviations from the signal leaving the mics is far more a matter of recording engineers tweeking and mixing and mastering engineers doing more tweeking than it is a function of vinyl vs. digital. Now, all else being the same, yes a sufficiently hi enough resolution digital transfer will be more accurate on most parameters than vinyl.
"Digital recording of an existing recording on a tape or record these days results in a "copy" that is undetectably different with equipment of a suitable technical quality."It *can.* Digital *can* be audibly transparent and often is.
"In the past this may not have been true, but certainly now the technology is very affordable and within reach of consumers."I totally agree with thsi point.
"Those who insist that digital is "inferior" usually lack the technical knowledge required to understand the process or base their opinions on experience gained on inferior equipment. Those who insist vinyl is "more accurate" clearly lack the technical understanding of the cutting and replay process."IMO digital is inferior to vinyl(I don't "insist" although I do think it is objectively technically superior) but digital is for the most part audibly more accurate. I am confident that my digital components are audibly transparent so this is not an equipment issue. Remember what I said about accuracy? That it was a misguided concept in audio? This illustrates that quite nicely. Equating accuracy and excellence. Bad idea. Sends most audiophiles in eroneous directions that are not paths to better quality sound or better understanding of audio. There certainly is overlap between accuracy and excellence in audio but they are not synonymous.
Edits: 08/03/17
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