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In Reply to: RE: Torpedo Level posted by Kindablue on May 10, 2017 at 05:18:58
Rather than just buy a non-calibrated POS from the hardware store, may I suggest one of these?
I use the eight inch one but the six would also be fine. What you used to think is level will not be when a real precision level is used.
You can also calibrate it if needed (It won't out of the box). McMaster-Carr is where I buy them from but for some reason it is hard to link to the page directly.
Follow Ups:
Really how much did you pay for your level ?
a level to see if it is accurate?
Haven't been here for quite a while but I have written about this before. I've used levels all my life and would never dream of spending $125 for a level.
Its true that many levels on the shelf are not true. But you can check a level to find out if it is accurate. Here's how.
Find a counter top or some other "supposed" level surface and put the torpedo level on the surface. Take careful note of where the bubble falls. Lets say it is between the lines but it hugs the right line. Carefully spin the level 180 degrees, placing the level in the exact same spot. If it hugs the right line again, then it is true and properly calibrated. If the bubble does not hug the right line when turned 180 degrees, then try another level. Keep using this procedure until you find a level which reads the same in both positions.
After you find an accurate level, treat it as a precision tool by not banging it on things and not throwing things on top of it.
I assume you will be using the level to level your TT or platter, etc. You can also check for vertical (plumb) using the same method. But I doubt you will need that for a TT, etc.
FWIW, I always check a level before using it. I learned the hard way that a level will sometimes go bad.
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?
About 150.00 or so. So far more accurate than the usual hardware store stuff it is not funny.
More accurate? really? I can see the 125$ level has a nicely machined housing and base even features wee adjusters.
But a glass vial and a contained Bubble ..
REALLY difficult to make one 'better' than another ... Gravity rules.
Unless possibly the glass tube/vial is tapered
I have to disagree. Good quality measuring tools are very often worth the extra cost. Do you want a cheap micrometer to measure something accurately. Some want a Mint Protractor and some want something cheaper. Some want a drill press that drills an accurate hole perpendicular to the work and some just want a hole. Since levelness is critical in how your TT sounds and operates I want a measuring device that is as accurate as is reasonable to afford. I have probably 6 other style levels bought at a variety of places and none exhibit the accuracy of the Starrett. Most know how to check a level for accuracy but what do you do when the one you bought a year ago turns up to have become inaccurate? I can adjust mine, you? Good quality tools are a joy to use and will last far longer than cheap stuff. There is an actual certification as how accurate your Starrett levels was when shipped. The accuracy is "1 division indicates an elevation of 0.005" per foot"
There was a guy on another forum who bought 5 VPI style cross type levels and put one on each corner and one on the platter to accurately level his new TT thinking this would increase his accuracy 5 fold. Then found himself in a tizzy when all 5 read something different. Of course one good level on the platter was all that was needed. Just my opinion.
I agree with much of your post except the idea that most know how to check a level for accuracy. IME,They don't.
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?
Artemus,
"I agree with much of your post except the idea that most know how to check a level for accuracy. IME,They don't."
I don't think I said that most know how to check for accuracy in a level. I assumed that most levels were made with tight tolerances and didn't need to be checked. Now, moving forward I'll be using your way of quick checking the accuracy and make sure my levels are accurate.
Thanks!
My reply wasn't to you but to wntrmute (sp) who had made the statement. IME most do not know how to check a level for accuracy. They will hold it against another to see if it agrees. But what if the other is defective? This is why I wrote the instructions because of my experience.
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?
My reply wasn't to you but to wntrmute (sp) who had made the statement. IME most do not know how to check a level for accuracy. They will hold it against another to see if it agrees. But what if the other is defective? This is why I wrote the instructions because of my experience.
My bad. Sorry.
Starrett - Highly recomended
Happy Listening
As a machinist making jet engine parts back in the 70's I can tell you the name Starrett is highly regarded, the Cadillac of the trade as it were. If you wanted the best you bought Starrett. Now as an electrician I buy Klein, it's the Cadillac of the electrical trade. There's no price that can be put on using a quality tool. To give you a reference point a pair of Klein side cutting pliars with hardened jaws will run about $50, a single screwdriver about $15.My cookware is All Clad, each pan is about $200, my kitchen knives are Shun, my bike is a Motobecane, etc. A quality tool makes the job easier and much less tedious so why spend time frustrated over using inferior tools.
Martin
Edits: 05/11/17
All Clad, big name.
!998 I bought a eleven piece set (triple clad ) that they wanted $1245 for, I got em down to $895.
Not as petty as the day I bought it, hey I use it.
I was a builder/contractor, Master carpenter. cabinet maker and furniture builder and designer. I believe in buying top quality tools. I was taught that early on. And I believe in maintaining tools as well. My levels were treated as precision instruments. They were handled with care.
That said, I have an American level which I bought in 1978 which is still accurate. I have a torpedo level which is still accurate as is my 28" level.
A level is either accurate it is not. I have given the info as to how to check it. I'm familiar with Starrett and am sure the $125 level has some use. But I'll guarantee I can use my much cheaper level and be just as accurate. And if you don't check that Starrett level prior to use, you will not know whether it is accurate as everything fails sometime.
This is not a new subject. One TT mfg made a level they sold for $69 which I gave the same answer some 6-8 yrs ago. Sorry if I look like a newcomer. Check my profile and you will see I just took a vacation.
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You paid HOW MUCH for that electrical receptacle?!!! Are YOU nuts?
We had a couple Stanley four foot levels at work. We lift heavy parts by crane and need them level to stack. A part looked level with the 4' Stanley contractor level. Then we put the Starrett precision level on it. The part was NOT level.
I liked your recommendation for checking the accuracy of levels and will be using it moving forward.
As a one time bike mechanic and hobbist bike restorer, I too believe in quality tools. But, as you indicated, this job can be done as well with a lot less.
I have also made my own tools, e.g. headset and bottom bracket press. It works great and cost less.
Don't be fooled by the name. As a 35 year season cyclist Motobecane is not a high end bike. They went out of business many, many years ago and at that time they were just ok bikes. The trademark and name was then bought about 10 years ago by a US based business that sources all their parts from China. They don't make a single part, nor do they have much or any input into manufacturing. They basically, go through OEM, Chinese manufacturing catalogs and buy frames at large volumes and sell them under the Motoecane name. They do assemble good value bike that is equal to Nashbar or Performance store brand bikes.
If you follow bike racing you might remember a brand called MBK that was ridden by European pros about 20 years ago. That is what became of Motobecane. When they restructured to MBK, they made some nice rides. I haven't seen an MBK in sometime, so I'm not even certain they are still around.
If you are looking to drop names and want to have snob appeal Waterford, Linsky, and Calfee are the bikes you should look at. If you want old school snob appeal, well, a 50 anniversary Paramount with a 50 anniversary Campy Record groupo is what you should own.
That being said.....it's not the bike that makes the man but the man that makes the bike. Greg Lemond could have won many bike races on a Schwinn Apple Crate. I can put together a great sounding system with a 5 dollar level. Not that I am the Greg Lemond of stereo but, rather, the price of the level is way less important than how you use it.
Probably much older than you so seldom fooled by a name.
You might want to check your saddle and your bike fit. That is one large frame that appears to be set up for a rider that much too short for it. Also, you might want to put your expensive level on your saddle as it appears the nose tipped way down in front; potentially impacting your long term comfort and negatively impacting your power transfer and efficiency. I'm sure it probably works for you but it is certainly an very unorthodox set up.
BTW, what grouppo are you sporting. Simplex, Suqino, Hurett or maybe even early Shimano? I tried to cut and paste your picture to have a better look but due to the low rez I was unable to do so. Anyway, my guess is that it is maybe a 5 or 7 speed drive train. Probably early 80's touring bike. Maybe one of their Grand Touring models. Too me, that is a big, meh? But then again it is not the bike that makes the man but rather the man that makes the bike.
And, no, your bike is really not that old compared to me, if I nailed the vintage correctly. I think you would have to reach back into the 50's for that.
It's a Grand Jubilee, you obviously have no taste in bikes.
Martin
The picture is as purchased 6 yrs and more than 5000 miles ago on eBay, the seat was raised considerably, and adjusted accordingly along with the rest of the bike. But thank you for your kind wisdom, it's my first bike ROFLMAO
Martin
BTW, I only responded to you the way I did because, to me, you came across like the main character in the Dire Straits song, "My Parties".
Actually, if you read my post without an attitude what it says is a good tool makes the job less fatiguing, and more enjoyable making it worth every penny.Martin
Edits: 05/11/17
Actually, if you read my post without an attitude what it says is a good tool makes the job less fatiguing, and more enjoyable making it worth every penny.
That I agree with.
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