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In Reply to: RE: I've long wondered posted by rbolaw on April 02, 2017 at 08:39:23
No they haven't simply because of the expertise involved in the optical engineering and the fact that the market for such a device is very niche. Consequently the price of the product would always put it out of reach of the majority of people simply wanting to play records. Let's face it, audiophiles willing to spend large sums on a turntable are a relatively small group!
The barrier you suggest wouldn't work either. The beams are aimed directly at each wall (i.e there are 2 beams 90° apart but normal to the surface. A barrier coating making the LP like a CD or laserdisc would cause refraction of the beam.
To me, the ELP should never be used as a general playback device simply because of this fundamental issue with surface contaminants. When the records are clean, the pops are no more intrusive than with a mechanical system. Since I use the ELP for transcriptions, I simply de-click the file. Significant blemishes require a bit more effort in the restoration, but my transcriptions are for the most part completely blemish free.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Follow Ups:
When you say you use the ELP for transcriptions I wonder why you would want to do that. I'm interpreting the word "transcriptions" to mean recordings. Am I correct? If so, I wonder why you would want to make recordings with a record player that doesn't sound as good as an ordinary mechanical record player.
I've been making recordings of vinyl since 1991 and my recordings sound virtually identical to playing the records on my turntable. Therefore, why not use the best sounding record player for transcriptions?
I can understand why you might want to use the ELP on a few specific records with special issues, but I would think you would want to use the best sounding record player for the vast majority of your transcriptions.
Best regards,
John Elison
Hi John
You are absolutely right and I completely agree that a recording should always be done using the best available equipment. Sometimes that means using the ELP.
Actually I DO use a conventional turntable for the majority of my recordings except for those records requiring the optical treatment. Although it might sound like a bit of extravagance to purchase an ELP for those rare (as in both valuable and/or damaged) records where I wouldn't risk damage to either disc or stylus, the reason I bought the ELP was to own what I consider to be something of an achievement in optical engineering. It was something I knew I would own after reading about the Finial deck back in the late 80s early 90s.
When I bought the ELP my expectations had been set appropriately low based on the reviews of that first version of the Finial. I was very pleasantly surprised. Due to the lack of tracking distortion and arm resonances the fundamental sound is better than many decks that have​ not been set up with care. My guess is that the output stage is where the sound degradation occurs. The clicks and pops are not offensive when the record is clean. You actually heard a clip from the ELP that time I shared those files with you!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Hi Anthony,
I considered buying an ELP in 2003 when I upgraded to my present Sota Millennia Vacuum turntable. I ordered ELP's demo CD-R to get an idea of how it sounded and I was pretty disappointed with the sound quality on their digital recording. I had been making my own digital recordings since 1991 and I knew how accurate they were with regard to my own turntable so I believed the ELP really sounded as bad as their recording revealed. Unfortunately, ELP's demo CD-R apparently was not done properly because I later heard other recordings from an ELP owner that sounded quite nice. In fact, if I had been given an accurate recording of the ELP I might actually have bought one. Instead, I decided to buy my Sota Millennia Vacuum with SME V. I kind of wish I had the money to own two expensive turntables because I would like to own an ELP.
Best regards,
John Elison
The thing about the ELP is that due to the LACK of the common forms of distortion in vinyl playback in particular the LF resonance, the ELP is NEVER going to sound as you expect. Originally there were some fundamental issues that made the ELP arguably inferior despite the obvious advantage of non-contact playback. Some of these are why you read negative reviews. The "dull" sound in the inner grooves is a software issue. I think they were applying a "hi cut" filter to minimise the offensive clicks and pops. The other is that it sounds sufficiently DIFFERENT to the expectations of the reviewer that they take a dislike to it. The assumption being that since it is a "Turntable" and is playing a familiar disc, that what they hear will be yet another version of the same. However, it is the lack of the LF resonance that makes it lack the same bass characteristics that people often point to. Consequently the sound will lack the same frisson they get from a conventional mechanical system.
In my recordings I always apply a high pass filter with a steep (linear phase) cut off at 25Hz for classical and 20Hz for jazz and pop. So in my recordings the bass quality is actually very similar with the ELP since I have removed the bloat associated with the low end rise.
The criticism I level at the ELP have more to do with the overall sonic texture which whilst smooth has a slightly "flat" quality to the soundstage. I would say the effect is similar to listening to a downconverted RB version to the original high resolution file. Both are good, but one sounds more visceral.
If I were in your position, I would have made the same choice as you. I think if you had your Technics and an ELP, you would use the Technics almost exclusively for all the reasons you have given. I do!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
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