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I have yet to meet a person who, upon listening to the same track on LP and then on CD, would exclaim: "These two playbacks sound EXACTLY the same!" (providing, of course, that the LP is in tip top shape, no pops and clicks, minimal surface noise). I would venture out to say that pretty much anyone can easily hear the difference in sound quality between LP and CD playbacks (all other things being the equal, of course).
This being the case, I now wish to ask you to provide a description of how does LP playback sound to you when compared to CD playback. I'm not aiming at ascertaining which format is better or worse, or which format is more realistic etc., merely trying to get a feel for how people experience two formats, in terms of attributes. What I'm looking for is descriptions such as "LP sounds like eating a messy burrito, CD sounds like eating a bucket of caviar."
OK, let me go first:
- LP sounds like driving a speedboat, CD sounds like enjoying a cruise ship
Your turn...
Follow Ups:
Ummm ... one spins clockwise and reads information from the outside band in towards the centre, and the other spins clockwise and reads information from the inside band out toward the edge?
Okay! But, which is which? That's the real question!
The LP is the one with the groove. Wait, that would make your CD-R discs an LP as well. '-)
LP sounds like reclining in your favorite old chair, in your old comfortable beat up pajamas, with your most comfortable slippers. CD sounds like sitting in a modern techo-fashionable chair, dressed in you best suit and wearing new Italian loafers.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Couldn't have put it better!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
This is the best description I have ever read! Excellent!
.
Hi, magiccarpetride,
I don't notice much of a difference anymore; both vinyl record and compact disc playback setups are sounding very good these days. I just listen to the music. :-)
Regards,
Tom
With CD, I'll love it for an hour or so, then the headache starts. With LP, no headache.
Don't know why.
This is why the CDs are for background music while I do something else and the records are for listening to music and doing nothing else.
Comparing analog sound reproduction to digital is a layered, complex and really deep endeavour. Although there is a huge variety in the quality of the source material -- well done LPs, poorly done LPs, well done CDs, poorly done CDs, well done hi rez files, poorly done hi rez files -- I still insist that there is room for generalization. Meaning, regardless of the actual level of care taken to produce the source, one can always assign certain qualities to analog playback that cannot be detected in the digital playback. And vice versa, of course.
Let's first consider how is sound being recorded: in terms of physics, sound is a measurable vibration of air molecules. When recording it, we rely on the fact that vibrating air molecules apply pressure on the membrane in the microphone. The kinetic energy of the vibrating microphone membrane gets converted to electrical impulses. These electrical impulses travel across the wire and instigate commensurable changes in the magnetic tape.
We see from the above description that the actual sound has already been processed by electrical components. When we use the signal stored on the magnetic tape to cut the LP, we are already twice removed from the original source.
So what we call 'analog' sound reproduction is actually a degraded, derived, twice removed signal. As such, it cannot but erode the pristine quality of the original performance.
Now when we move to the digital processing, we are processing the already pre-processed, degraded signal. Now we are trice removed from the original source.
Some people claim that this third step, the third derivation (i.e. the digitization of the analog signal) can safely be ignored in terms of producing any additional sound degradation. Really, no kidding? I beg to differ. I don't think any processing step can be safely ignored. Each and every act of tampering with the signal degrades it. I'm sure many people will disagree, but I'd need a convincing example which proves that tampering with the signal is 100% transparent.
So using an analogy (how apt for us analog lovers), I could say that analog sound reproduction is like cooking a meal: we take perfectly fresh ingredients, and then mess with them, combine them in all kinds of crazy ways, add some seasoning, add oil and lard and butter, crank up the heat, etc. In the end we get something we hopefully find enjoyable.
But digital sound reproduction (following this analogy) would be like taking such cooked meal, freezing it, then chopping it up, reheating it, refrying it, shoving it into microwave oven. How can the end result be identical? There is no way!
As for taking a dig at the digital format, I think most of us tend to do it because we feel cheated by the music industry. CDs and digital wouldn't be a big deal if we haven't been force fed the phoney propaganda how LPs are dead and CDs are 'perfect sound forever'. That's the thing we resent (and we all know that music industry execs did it out of greed, because CDs are more profitable for them than LPs).
But having LPs, CDs, DVDs, blu-rays, hi rez files, cassettes, 8 tracks etc. as various formats side-by-side is actually awesome. Freedom always boils down to freedom of choice.
Excellent! If this were a regular board, that would be a sticky!
vs a fresh vintage Beaujolais. The Pinot.lp, has myriad layers of flavor while the Beaujolais is bright,fresh and fruity .
I'd say cd is good for background music, LPs are more likely to suck you into the performance and demand your attention.
CD's are when I'm just too busy to flip a record.
.
This is becoming the sort of thing where we just need to point people to an FAQ of standard answers. They're both pretty good technologies and we don't need this appearance of constant rivalry.
All they do is talk about meat. They make fake chicken nuggets, steak shaped tofu. I heard one comedian describe it perfectly; It's like they broke up with meat, but they stalk meat now and hang around outside meat's house to see what he's up to.
We were told CD was "perfect forever" but then CD started drinking too much and staying out late and RUSTING. So we stalk CD.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
> LP sounds like driving a speedboat, CD sounds like enjoying a cruise ship
I'm trying to figure out what this means. In order to make sense of this I need to know what kind of speedboat and what kind of cruise ship. There are all sorts of different kinds of speedboats but different cruise ships are probably more similar to each other. In other words, speedboats can be small and flimsy or they can be larger and more powerful. Cruise ships, on the other hand, are generally VERY large, stable, safe, and hold hundreds of people compared to the largest speedboat, which is small in comparison and designed for a relatively short, bumpy ride.
Your description of the difference between LP and CD leaves more questions in my mind and than answers. Of course, maybe that is your intention. ;-)
I used speedboat vs cruise ship analogy to try and illustrate how with vinyl (i.e. cruise ship) you get a more muscular, close to the actual action visceral experience. When enjoying a cruise ship, you're quite removed from the contact with water, so your sailing is pleasant, but somewhat mind numbing.
There is another aspect to it: digital reminds me hypertext, as opposed to regular text. If I'm reading a regular book, I usually do it sequentially. On occasion, I may skip a chapter or two, or start from the middle, etc., but that's not typically how I experience and enjoy books.
If I'm reading a hypertext document, I am liable to start clicking on links. Those links magically transport me to other parts of the digital document/book, or even to completely different digital books. That's exhilarating, as I'm now in control of the sequence and the dosage of the content I'm consuming.
But you see, with digital, I lose the organic connection with what the author had actually intended to portray. So in the end, this fast and furious digital diet, where I keep streaming and downloading and skipping all over the place, leaves me hungry and ultimately dissatisfied. That's the reason I prefer the analog, more sequential diet.
Digital puts my brain 'on edge'. I often struggle to see past the medium.
LP, especially AAA examples, mitigate the 'suspension-of-disbelief' barrier somewhat. That's good, as I'm into the music more than the sound (though love both).
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
As rule of thumb ... w/ many variables, including gear chosen. Pre-recorded music only.
LP ... warm ... CD ... muscular.Vinyl is for fun ... CD's are for ripping files.
Power is always dangerous. It attracts the worst and corrupts the best ... Ragnar Lothbrok
Edits: 03/22/17
"Vinyl is for fun ... CD's are for ripping files."
I spent years ripping CD's and downloading CD's. Not to mention the time spent getting the metadata just right.
I spent more days and months trying to get a computer based audio system just right. What software to use, what DAC to buy, should I upsample?
Finally I asked myself why am I wasting so much time. I've been buying vinyl ever since. It feels like the music is first again.
CD: Detailed but uptight
LP: Detailed and relaxed
Just my impression of two tracks.
It is real easy if you know what singers sound like and acoustic instruments. If it take on a metallic or electronic edge well it loses the soul of the music. That being said more people like Hi Fi than real sounding music so for them the little silver thing is just fine.
The best thing about CDs was for decades it brought the prices of LPs way down. Everyone was drinking the koolaide waiting for the next perfect sound for ever. Step right up it is only a dollar!!!
I will let you guys try to figure out with words why one sounds like real music and the other sort of!!!
Enjoy the ride
Tom
I do have a slightly more sophisticated TT setup than my CD. (like double the cost)
So vinyl does have a tiny edge over my digital... if I would care about it.
I do not.
I marvel at the mental gymnastics some folks go through to claim one is better.
IMO, they are just SLIGHTLY different. And the differences do not matter enough to worry about. Though reading what folks think/claim/believe is fun.
IMO the differences are about the same as differences in other electronics, or different IC.
How could it be otherwise?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I am certain that some folks think reality is only a figment of the imagination. I am not one of those folks.
It is however true our limited experience of reality exists within our mind as after the fact impressions. However the World etc, really is out there
> However the World etc, really is out there
Out where?
LP sounds like the lobby of an opulent hotel. CD sounds like the morgue in the hospital's basement.
Here is my analytical interpretation of what I hear. I even have a few CDs that I enjoyed very recently as well as LPs, to make the comparison fair.
To me, CD gives a bunch of sounds or tones. Their timing is very important in order to convey sonic events. At best, their timing is pretty good and they portray a reproduction of the event that happened.
LP, on the other hand, is very much a matter of events being given in succession. This sounds more like the real thing, which is a series of events that happened in time. Things seem to happen quicker.
Technically speaking, it must be the bandwidth limitation of redbook CD, and I would expect that high sample rate systems can eliminate this timing ambiguity that I seem to detect. However, if it gets converted to redbook, that information is immediately lost.
...Since your system description indicates no turntable, perhaps you might take the plunge on your own then report to this forum your own thoughts. That is what most of us have done.
-Steve
nt
- LP sounds like driving a speedboat, CD sounds like enjoying a cruise ship
LP is a Hasselblad 500C, CD a View Master.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
Edits: 03/21/17
Digital sounds great for five minutes. Analog sounds great for five hours.
I don't recommend vinyl to anyone looking for breathtaking sound. I have about as many CD's nowadays as I have records; breathtaking moments populate each species about equally. Those moments arise from great performances, great recording, great mixing and mastering, and overall love of the sound. It's much less due to the flavor of plastic. Heck, half of of my rekkids is below average anyways!
With all my respect to the Original Poster- I think that VA has somehow slipped its focus gradually from folks who regard vinyl as a deep hobby interest to folks who regard it as a groovy urbanite's alternative to digital. Bear resists sweeping generalizations but offers the following sweeping philosophical B.S.(Bear-S*, that is):
The echoes of the horrified reaction on the part of the deep-vinylists to the horrid sound of early CD's/players seems to tickle the fancy of the urbanite faction. That era is largely passed. Through it all, I kept listening to vinyl because I own thousands of records. I kept waiting for digital sound to get better and it has- a win/win!
I can attest only to the sounds of my rig. I have not had as much of an interest in hi-res digital playback due to my vinyl investment and yes, funds. I have a substantial CD library with some great sounding CDs but am not drawn to it as much as my vinyl. Being a tactile person with not so young eyes (and ears), vinyl and it's sound, art and packaging floats my boat.
I envy that you have been able to develop your digital to your satisfaction. Enjoy!
Still spinnin'...
;^)
parallel recordings on cd and LP will mostly sound more alive, relaxing, and satisfying then its CD brother.
MANY recordings aren't available on vinyl and vice versa. when i already have a CD and get its vinyl equivalent, my "oh GOODY" emotion races to the front, even with discs i know to be digital originals.
...regards...tr
LP sounds more lifelike and digital sounds more like a reproduction.
Tactile and palpable. For me it's also ritual. The anticipation of the needle hitting the vinyl is greater than that of the laser reading the '1's and '0's. Sound is vibration and I get that with my vinyl rig. Just my humble opinion/impression!
Still spinnin'...
;^)
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