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In Reply to: RE: More info posted by vinyl survivor on October 20, 2012 at 21:06:54
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"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
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Actually, the introductory price for RMAF was $8,900, not 6,000. Yes, it is a competitive price when considering the competition found in the particular market segment of such groundbreaking developments. Sales exceed expectations from what I hear.
If you order a couple of thousand, I suppose they would be willing to attempt a redesign of the product, so that it could compete in price with the Rega and Jelco tonearms of this world. Meanwhile, the makers are most likely content with remaining in the rarefied "cutting edge" neighborhood where they have been so wonderfully received.
Very seldom does a mass marketeer break new ground, so don't hold your breath waiting for a cheap tonearm that does something to redefine the way other tonearms have worked for the last century. The likelihood of that happening is pretty remote.
The Schröder LT is a game changer. It is the sort of product that fosters a legacy, and those don't come along every day.
This is the first arm of its kind. Less expensive versions of it could appear one day.
Not to take anything away from what Frank has done, and it looks very interesting. I had a chance to listen to the prototype they had in Denver last year and it was good.
But the concept or idea is not new. Frank's execution is different and more visually pleasing to me but credit should be at least shared with others such as Thales Tonearm
The Thales tonearm is an entirely different concept. Furthermore, it doesn't work very well because the linkage has way too much friction and it also rattles. Wally Malewicz and I tested it at RMAF 2010.Best regards,
John Elison
Edits: 10/22/12
Yes it is an entirely different concept in practice but it does the same thing in a linear manner, and it came to market first, thiat is all I wanted to say.
The particular arm you speak of at the 2011 RMAF was setup after it came back from a reviewer damaged that is what you saw there unfortunately. The newer Thales Simplicity looks like something I would rather have over their bigger Thales AV style arm.
> Yes it is an entirely different concept in practice but it does the same thing
> in a linear manner, and it came to market first, thiat is all I wanted to say.In that case, let us not forget the Garrard Zero 100 turntable with a tonearm that is much more similar to the Thales tonearm than Frank Schröder's tonearm. I would say the Garrard Zero 100, which went to market in 1970, came long before the Thales tonearm.
The Thales tonearm I tested was at RMAF 2010, not RMAF 2011. It did not appear to be damaged, but I suppose that's a possibility. Regardless, all the extra linkage and extra bearings create excessive friction and the potential for unwanted and unnecessary vibration. The Garrard Zero 100 had the same problem.
Best regards,
John Elison
Edits: 10/22/12
Yes John
There are plenty of good working examples of linear type arms, even before Thales. Thorens has one as well from way back.
You are right about the Thales at 2010 not 2011. At the 2010 RMAF it was damaged and you only saw it on Friday, and HWS took it off after Wally's testing. RMAF 2011 HWS used both models of the Thales arms on the Thales tables without a problem.
I do like the simple uncluttered look of Frank arm though. Hopefully it performs very well.
Grinch alert.........
Maybe eventually - after my cremation - the technology/concept employed in this design will "trickle down". Maybe worldwide "redistribution of wealth" will occur during my lifetime and the hifi market will tilt towards enthusiasts who don't have such large sums available to put towards their vinyl systems, and Shroeder will be able to lower the price and dramatically increase sales volume sales (doubtful).
Win, I can and do admire products like your tt design and this arm from afar, but for the foreseeable future it really has no, ahh, bearing on listening to music at my house. Tough for me to get excited about products like this one which are so far from my reality and certainly not a requisite for being immersed in recorded music.
Curious......
Shroeder's new design appeals to me more than currently available linear trackers - it seems simpler and easier to use. But in terms of *sound*, what differentiates this arm from "regular" linear tracking designs that have been around for many moons?
It sounds as good as the very best pivoting arms, except it shares a major benefit with other linear tracking tonearms. That benefit is that tracks the entire record perfectly, and the result is that it presents far less wear to the stylus. Arguably, perfect tracking also results in more perfect sound reproduction. It is at least one more step in the right direction.
It is better than other linear trackers because it doesn't need fancy motors and pumps to work, and that means it isn't dependent upon the proper function of outside mechanics that fail from time to time. Also, it isn't so limited as to the choices of cartridges that can be made. Often, other linear tracking tonearms are extremely limited when it comes to cartridges used, and they are more likely to require a level of care that pivoting tonearms are free from. This tonearm is the best of both worlds in a smaller package.
Consider the prices of associated frontend equipment in the High-End market, and the price of the tonearm fits. Back in the Seventies, even the entry level SME cost $800. Things are no different now than they were then, except that a lot of things have been improved...not all, but a lot of things.
Do I have the money for one? No, not right now. Do I really, really want one? Yes
Back in the Seventies, even the entry level SME cost $800.
$800? Perhaps I was just a lucky lad when I purchased a 3009 Type II Improved new in 1974 for about $150. The Technics SL110a on which it was mounted was about $300 and the Ortofon SL15E with SUT was about $120.
The 1975 Annual Equipment Directory published by Audio magazine listed two versions of the SME Type II arm (removable and non-removable headshell) at $174 and $182.
I did, however, spend $850 in '84 for a Souther TQ-1 plus $70 for a Tiffany cable. :)
nt
...I hope you hit that lottery. ;)
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