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In Reply to: RE: Clean and resell -nt :) posted by Michael Samra on April 23, 2017 at 14:21:52
...when working for a Carver dealer (mid/late 1980s) we referred to the rated power of Carver amps as "bullshit watts".
Never heard a Carver amp from the era that could play, cleanly, as loud as the competition with half the power.
Especially the "Cube"... a 200-watt amp that couldn't keep up with most 80-watt receivers.
The exception was the M-500. Sounded good and had serious headroom.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Follow Ups:
Dean,
That's right on. I was given a "Cube", and it had no bass. At the time I had a Scott 370R receiver, and in sound quality, and bass output it put the Carver to shame.
Jerry
I had a beautiful "Champagne" one I used with an Advent 300 Receiver - driving my Obelisks. While is mainly was up to the task, I built myself a Dynaco 410 and in the A-B test of similar powered amps the Dynaco won - so the little 7 lb cube was sold to a friend. Like the Kenwood KA7300 I owned before it (1977?), they are still owned and running with the friends they were sold to... As are the Obelisks and the Stereo 410 that were sold together to aid in purchasing engagement rings... Marriage still going too! LOL
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I had a cube too. It sounded okay but I never drove it hard. Mainly it was cute looking. But it behaved rather oddly at times and I was told it was very hard to fix. I believe you about the wattage. I think he was using some proprietary measuring technique ...
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
Dean
You are exactly right. Notice that the M500 and the M 4.0 and the M 1.0 and
the Phase Linear 700 and the 400 to a lesser extent,all were heavier amps.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
I remember it was in the latter 70s and I was listening to a Phase Linear setup at the local Newmark and Lewis store.
My review: It was like listening to the future of audio.
It was like listening to the future of audio.
I would have said that of Threshold. The 800A truly set a new standard in terms of sonic performance and ability to drive difficult loads.
I still have my 800A.I bought it for 175 dollars back in the mid 80s not working.One of the big input filter caps was open so I changed both.It's a beautiful class A amp but it sounds kind of brittle.It's nowhere near what my SA/2 is sonically.I need to recap the driver board and that may help.I had to pull the face plate off to work on it and the face plate is also the cover of meter pointers.Static charge made the bottom pointer stick a bit so I had to bend that pointer back on the right channel.It looks good but you can see that slight kink it that pointer.I love that amp from a nostalgic standpoint.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
It's a beautiful class A amp but it sounds kind of brittle.It's nowhere near what my SA/2 is sonically.
Then something else is wrong with it. While the ten year later SA series was clearly better, "brittle" is not a word I would ever use with a properly functioning Threshold amp.
Ever listen to one of Nelson's more recent models like say an XA200.8 or one of the XS (pun intended by him) series?
I love all of his amps but maybe brittle wasn't the right word but it is hard sounding in comparison to other amps.It's very detailed but it doesn't have that warm tube type elegance like that the SA series.My FET-10E is also a charmer.
There really isn't much to the 800A other than the DC coupled outputs which are standard NPN Motorola.I asked Nelson Pass about this issue and he said that was our first amp and recapping the driver board may help but it is old technology.That very well could fix the issue to make it better because all the outputs are at .62vdc base to emitter and it makes exactly 201 watts and than starts to clip on measurement which is normal for class A.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
My first experience with the 800A was driving Dayton-Wright XG-8 MKIIIs. The results were far better than what the D-W rep (Dan D'Agostino) initially recommended using Dunlap-Clarke amps.
The dealer who I worked for in college sold Acoustats and Dayton-Wrights. The results were definitely improved when Julian drove his D-Ws with a Stasis 2 amp. :)
Remember when Nakamichi used NP's Stasis technology in their amps? They paid NP for that but they couldn't get their amps sound like the Threshold at all. I want to get my FET 10E back out. Speaking of D'Agostino. I knew Leonard and Chris at Martin Logan and I used to tell them,quit using that lifeless Krell amp to demo your speakers with. They would always respond with,tell me about it. LOL. They knew the Krell amps were lifeless but Gayle Sanders and D'Agostino were buds so the story goes.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I sold Nakamichi in the 80's, and they had some great CD players, preamps and of course, cassette decks. On every other speaker we tried them on, the Stasis Nakamichi sounded dull and lifeless, but on Acoustats they sounded great. Somehow the flaws balanced out. Go figure!
Dave
They paid NP for that but they couldn't get their amps sound like the Threshold at all.
Execution is everything. :)
They knew the Krell amps were lifeless but Gayle Sanders and D'Agostino were buds so the story goes.
HP used Krell amps on the Nola bass towers where they excelled.
HP used Krell amps on the Nola bass towers where they excelled."Oh yes,they were exceptional on bass and they were detailed and accurate in the mids in an analytical sense but they were very boring and dry to a lot of people including myself.
This Plinus is the amp that I was very impressed with this winter when I heard it on my friend's Apogee Divas. We were running a tube preamp tho.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Edits: 04/26/17
Just like Kingshead, moi is a Carver convertee, too. Carver got their Flame Linear reputation due to under-spec'ed parts gettin' stressed & failing. Properly repaired, however, Carver gear will rock long-n-strong. ... Got a MXR-130 Receiver a few years ago which had those problematic power resistors replaced by previous owner & apparently par-tayed mercilessly. Which peaked curiosity for a PM-600 pro amp, which was designed for similar abuse. Both 130-n-600 are Class G Magnetic Field amps, & have a "this is what your speakers sound like" presentation. Along with a panoramic sound-stage which Hafler surround-sound aficionados will find enticing. However, both 130-n-600 amps have a mid-range peak akin to Celestion's V-30 speaker. Won't be noticed on more neutral sounding speakers, & mid-recessed speakers will sound fuller. But mid-range-centric speakers will sound shouty, irrespective of volume level. ... Your M1.0t amps, Michael, were designed to emulate Conrad Johnson's Premiere Five tube amps. There are BillD update mods available over on the Carver site, amongst a myriad of available Carver topology updates. Moi's 600 really bloomed by simply bypassing volume controls, & now prefers Mitsubishi DA-C20 pre over Carver CT-17. Properly performing Magnetic Field amps apparently have a "this is what your pre-amp sounds like" presentation, too. Whoever gets your refurbed M1.0t amps will be extremely grateful, Michael. 73s para Sactown P.S.: HAPPY 100th BIRTHDAY ELLA FITZGERALD !!!
Your M1.0t amps, Michael, were designed to emulate Conrad Johnson's Premiere Five tube amps"
It's funny you say that because I have a pair of Carver 4.0 amps and those are the ones that say vacuum tube transfer function on them.I take it the 1.0t also have that function?
I had the CJ Premier five EL34 amps in my home for 3 months back in the mid 80s because my friends were CJ dealers and Tom let me use them while they moved into their new and larger store. I thought they were wonderful at the time because I was using them on my Magnapan Typmpani lVa speakers.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Indeed they do, Michael. That "t" designation stands for Transfer Function Modified. 130 Receiver's amp was based on TFM-24/25 amps (one amp had analog meters, the other LED's). Silver Seven amps were Carver's top dawgs, so M-4.0t should be a delight. Might be fun A/B testing your Carvers, & wondering how actual Premiere 5/Silver Seven would compare. BTW, 600 allows for switch-selectable bridged mono mode operation. 73s para Sactown
Where do you make good finds like that?
You have some nice friends. Why is it all of mine buy HT's at Best Buy.
I don't know but I have a lot of those friends to Charles.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
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