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In Reply to: RE: Creating vintage sounding speaker using modern elements, Which tweeter to use ? posted by Eli Duttman on August 03, 2013 at 16:41:43
Does vintage sound mean you are goign to listein to vintage Rock? Thought about a horn?
Follow Ups:
By 'vintage' I mean generally 'old style' of execution of the speaker design. Not restricted to any specific type of music genre. I don't particularly seek a guitar style of speaker, but it just appeared to me guitar speaker elements still have some oldish characteristics.
Maybe it is relevant also to think how vintage is vintage, since what was in fashion has changed a number of times.
Very simplistic timeline is propably something like:
horn tweeters -> cone tweeters -> dome tweeters -> dome tweeters with waveguide -> ??? back to horn tweeters ???
I may settle at the counterpoint between a cone tweeter and a dome tweeter :-)
Horn tweeters could be used, BUT they tend to have too narrow beam for home living room use.
I don't like small sweet spot.
Elias, although they're pricey, Jensen/Recoton's P12R-RI and/or P12Q-RI alnico 12" drivers will give you instant vintage vibe. Just like David LD intimated. P12R-RI is rated up to 50 watts, with 60 hz-8 khz frequency range & 93.6 dB sensitivity. P12Q-RI ups the wattage to 80, & sensitivity to 96.1 dB. Replaced stock woofs in ESS Model 10s with Mesa/Boogie's P10R-RI drivers, along with replacing stock Philips tweets with Motorola piezos. Easily emulates seductive auld-skool alnico sweetness. 73s para Sactown !!!
These are musical instrument speakers, with small magnets, high Fs and high Q. They are not high fidelity speakers.
They sure have a nostalgic look, though.
Elias, have used 12" Utah Cadences, in Hafler configuration, for close to three decades (with a Jensen 1204 providing occasional centre channel duty). Wanted to switch to Celestion's G12H-30s back in '81, because of Jimi. Ron Rader, of Rader's Music, said stay the course with the Utahs because G12H-30s would blur bass response. A decade ago, switched to Mesa's V30s for Hafler front channel presentation. Had Brown Soun hemp recone them several years later. Brown Soun's late owner John Harrison said he received several other customer requests for hemp-reconed V30s for hi-fi use, too. He was told those V30s delivered the best midrange they'd ever elicited from their multi-kiloback rigs. Switched to hemp-reconed Mesa MC-90s (G12H-80 variants) a few years ago because that V30 mid-spike was exacerbated via Carver amplification. Still use Utah Cadences for rear-channel delivery, though. BTW briggs, Ron Neal of Neal's Speakers said many of those Jensen speakers, which made Fender amplification legendary, started out as hi-fi speakers. Same same for Celestion's legendary G12 alnico Blue, too. 73s para Sactown !!!
FRG7SWL,
Sounds interesting. I also believe guitar elements can be used in home hifi, when implemeted properly.
Are your speakers 2-ways, too ?
Can I know what did you use for tweeter ? That is the question :-)
Indeed, I've been looking at guitar drivers :-)
Those Jensen vintage style reproductions are made in italy
http://www.sica.it/en/products.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=13&parentCategory=2
end they certainly have appealing vintage appearance
However I think they have a slight problem of rather high resonance frequencies, 90 Hz for P 12 Q, and 80 Hz for P 12 R.
This 12" Celestion Heritage Series G12H(55) has got my attention. 55 Hz resonance which is very good for a driver of this kind. 30 W of power handling indicates something 'vintage' is built in ;-)http://celestion.com/product/25/heritage_series_g12h55/
Crossing this at 1.5 kHz would do nicely, I think.Having sensitivity of about 100 dB at 1 kHz gives a great challenge to find a matching tweeter.
The highest sensitity domes I know are around 95 dB.
Edits: 08/04/13
At least, for guitar use, to get that classic Bluesy tone.As for the Re-issued Jensens (Made in Italy), I don't think they have the vintage "Made In Chicago" Jensen alnico tone. Maybe, the re-issued C12K get close to the original C12N's in the blackface Twin Reverb. Maybe...
In general, the bigger the magnet the better the power handling capacity. I'd prolly go for a Concert Series P12P (often labeled Bell & Howell). These give the best classic tone and were used in many hi-fi units, of its time.
Ever thought about chrome-doming a JBL woofer? Chrome peeking out of the grille is pretty retro-looking.
8^)
Edits: 08/04/13 08/04/13
Just loaded a 4 X 10-inch cab with these. Nice vintage "tweed" tone.
.
.
Edits: 08/04/13
Salutations para Sactown once again, FenderLover. Sweet lookin' quartet! 'Tis rumoured Mesa's P10R-RI's have different cone than "stock" Recotons. Kinda like how Mesa's V30s have a different voicing than "stock" V30s. That 1204 came from Skip's Music's original 24th & Florin Road store. Replaced in a Fender amp by a G12H-30, oddly enuff (tech forgot which model, & that's moi's alibi). Heard Webers were the way to go for authentic Chicago Jensen nowadays. Those are some sick-lookin' stacks ya got goin' on, too! Got that chrome-dome jones outta me bones with them Utah Cadences back-in-da-late 70s on into da 80s. BTW, Berkeley's Sound Well currently has a pair of near-mint JBL D123's. ... Elias, have been a two-way proponent since Air Force tech sarges converted impressionable brat into efficiency fiend. Tweets are different in each system, though. ESS Model 10s have Motorola piezos. Cerwin Vega's have horn tweets partnered with 12" EVH Forces. MC-90s have dynaudio D28-AFs. All tweets have 4.7 uf Dayton poly-prop crossovers, except for Utility Advents & their 12uf Dayton poly-props. Which means, Elias, there are various avenues to vintage aurality. 73s para Sactown !!!
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