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Is there any help for those of us cursed with having to live with a dimmer switch on the circuit?? I'm experiencing noise from the bulbs ( halogen spot and flood), as well as a slight hum from my amp ( tube ). I suspect there is some DC voltage being introduced onto the line, along with RFI.I called Lutron, who are a leading dimmer manufacturer, and they acknowledged their product will leak some DC to the lines. All I got from them was that their best product in terms of noise filtration was their architect series ( Vareo, I believe ), but no other solution, short of putting in a standard on/off switch.
Any other product or ideas that are practical that would provide some light control, but be less disruptive tothe music.
TIA
slope
Follow Ups:
the company that made them was bought out and now part of a larger operation... can't think of their old trade name, their market was the film/theater/production side, nobody in home audio ever heard of them, these were beauties, UL rated, code compliant, epoxy potted (or not, whatever you wanted could be custom spec'd) where you would install them in series with your dimmer... they were specifically tuned to slow the "chirp" of the standard dimmer so it looked like a smooth curve on a 'scope as opposed to a nasty spike. I would guess they'd run you around $25 each OEM if you could find a source, they mount in a standard box... compare those really small so called "filters" in residential grade dimmers, about 3/4 inch diameter, to a real one, about 2 inch diameter with heavy copper windings, you get the idea...
they have two according to their literature:LDC10-TCP and LDC16-TCP
look for spec sheet 360-212 for more information
they re-engineered it from the ground up...if you added a small noise trap like a Quietline maybe all you need ?
I had an older "normal" light switch in the audio circuit. Took it out completely so that the kids would not be able to shut off music by the wall switch. We then put a cheap multi-watt table lamp in, from WallMart or Zellers I believe. The kind that you just touch to change the brightness. Easy to touch it off after I set up the music, and I cannot hear noise from it.
I have a dimmer less than 3 ft from my main amp and without any filtering in place i dont hear any noise or hum from them, so im not sure how low down it realy is db wise.
the ones i am using are designed for std bulbs as well as GU10 mains halogen and electronic transformer driven low voltage lighting but not standard wirewound transformer. got some sort of microchip (pic) inside for memory/remote control, i believe they are zero crossing type devices.
They are called Varilight in the UK.
But I guess they are made in china so there should be a US equivalent somewhere. could be woth checking out though.Chris.
Hi Chris:Checked them out. They look very nice. Don't know what "trailing edge" attenuation means, and if it's audio friendly, but I noted they are sold through a couple of british audio outlets; as well with your positive experience, I'd like to find out more.
However, I can't find any reference to them being in the US, much less Canada.
Anyone seen them around??
slope
The trailing edge switching thing is that they work by turning off the desending part of the mains sinewave.
Most "normal" dimmers use the leading or rising edge this seems to produce more noise (EMI/RFI). I think due to the stored charge in the load, the current decline is not as sharp as the turn on of the normal leading edge dimmer.I got mine from a electrical trade/retailer loads cheaper than an audio boutique say about 8GBP = $14 US.
check out your local trade places for "IQ trailing edge dimmers" they arent that new been around for a few years but not be unknown in the electrical/lighting world over your side of the pond.
Good hunting.
Most dimmer circuits throw enough EMI down the line to overwhelm even a good AC line filter, my own design can reduce, but not eliminate, most dimmer noises. A JR AC line filter at the dimmer AND at the audio ssytem can sometimes reduce it enough to be bearable.I have also posted on using Variacs instead of dimmers, see:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/40868.htmlIsolation transformers can also be effective, and some that are large enough to run the lights are not that expensive, see:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/catch2.htm
near the bottom for the lower wattage iso transformers.A Variac can control the lighting intensity with NO noise, and a combination of two AC filters, or an AC filter and an iso transformer can reduce the noice signficantly.
Jon Risch
The Luxtrol WAS the original dimmer, it is for all intents and purposes, an in wall variac. Comes in 450 watt, 800 watt, and 1800 watt versions. Rather large and heavy, but designed to mount flush to wall. Dimming is far better, "linear" ar we audiods like to say in the low ranges. Standard dimmers loose subtlety at the lower intensities. A Luxtrol allows you to dial in anything from alpenglow to afterglow. Absolutely silent, lasts easily 100 years with one carbon brush change, built like a tank.... you can't go wrong with it, if you can fit it in the wall. I've even used them as freestanding dimmers for halogens, but the manufacturer doesn't support that. 100% legal and code compliant in all 50 states... they should advertise in the audio magazines....
Looks like a product that would work, but the price is steep, $350-$400. Ouch..may prefer a very course level tuning..on or off! and get a regular switch.Thanks for the info.
slope
What would you recommend for compact variacs that can be installed in a wall, with modification? Are there variacs that when installed still look more like normal dimmers? All I would need is something as small as 200 or 300 VA. Thanks!
http://www.iabnet.com/
Check with electronics distributors for the likes of a small Staco or Superior Electric brand autoformer (variac), 270-300W rated units run around $60-70.Newark and Allied carry one or the other brand, and other distribs as well. Check their web sites using search words like variac and autoformer.
Getting these industrial grade units nicely mounted into the wall may take some imagination, and some luck with finding the right wall box and plate, etc., but the cost is so reasonable, that it is worth a little searching to make it work.
Note that most such units have an over unity setting, PAST 120V level, and this can significantly shorten the life of many bulbs! Again, you could put a stop on the knob or shaft to prevent exceeding 100% voltage.
Jon Risch
most recording studios are loaded with them and they don't cause problems.
...moved them into a room with a dimmer switch. Are dimmer switches only a problem when the dimmer is on or are they a problem even if the switch is off?
I feel your pain. My monoblock power amps are on the same AC circuit as the dimmer and pick up a very-low-level buzz.After reading a string of AA posts over a year ago recommending Lutron dimmers, I wrote to Lutron and they recommended their "Nova T" series for best RFI suppression. So I special ordered one to experiment. Alas, the buzz in my amps was not reduced at all compared to a regular residential-grade dimmer. Worse, the Nova T dimmer itself emitted a low-level high-pitched acoustical noise furthering the annoyance.
Next step (some day ...) will be to run dedicated 20-amp lines for the amps. Or ditch the dimmers.
Charlie
Hi,May want to try something rather simple, but works most of the time quite well. Geg a .01 microfarad, 1000 volt or better ceramic cap and put it accross the dimmers incoming power. Filters out a lot of crap, you may be surprised at how much.
Regards,
Greg
Opinions, everybody has at least one.
jon risch filter or spend $50 on a monster av200 ac filtering module and just plug it in between the wall and your equipment.
and RFI won't get eliminated by filters as it is airborne to your system interconnects; assuming your gear is consumer-grade with unbalanced connections rather than pro-sound balanced you are not going to get rid of the noise completely. A dedicated power line to your service box for your system may help somewhat, as would filters, but it won't be a total cure.
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