 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
In Reply to: Not too classy, or too believable... posted by Robert H. on January 19, 2004 at 17:06:55:
Why is it that all of your posts regarding Real Traps sound like testimonials?Ethan made specific claims about the function and operation of the pressure type bass trap, see:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/94292.html"Sealing a tube trap "airtight" is futile and a waste of time because the fiberglass itself is porous! "
and
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/94333.html" > you don't agree with the theory that tube traps are "pressure zone devices"? <
Yes, I do not agree. :-> ) "
also:
" > I'm wondering why tube traps (eg. ASC, Risch DIY, pipe insulation type DIY) all emphasize the need for the trap to be sealed <Because they don't understand how the devices work."
As I see it, not only is he spreading mis-information re how these bass traps work, he directly attacked me by saying that I did not know what I was talking about. I make my living in acoustics (I design pro sound loudspeaker systems), and take it VERY seriously.
I have explained how the ASC style pressure type bass traps work, see:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/94648.html
and
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/91658.html
and
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/41861.htmlas well as in other posts here at the Tweaker's asylum.
I have also explained how the Super Quick & Dirty traps work.Ethan has explicitly shown he does not fully understand the acoustic principles at work here, despite having access to the ASC patent and my posts. I am pointing this out, as well as what I see as the fallacy of recommending the use of lots of expensive (705 panels) fiberglass, when it is NOT necessary to do this to achieve very good bass damping and absorption.
[ I suspect you too have some profit to be made - you are in the business as well, and seem to have some turf to defend. ]
No, I do not make any money from any of my DIY designs or info. That includes the DIY acoustics projects, the DIY audio cable designs, the DIY AC power filter and isolation transformer, the DIY component damping sand bags, or for any of the other information I make available. I do have a right to defend my reputation.
It is a fact that Mr. Winer is selling products based on his idea of the best bass trap. So I think that what I said regarding his selling product is certainly worth knowing.
You can call my pointing out the technical errors and defending myself "cheap stuff", or whatever you want to call it, but that does not change the facts regarding the acoustics, and how the resistive pressure style bass traps work, or how effective they are.
Jon Risch
Follow Ups:
"Why is it that all of your posts regarding Real Traps sound like testimonials?"I've made TWO posts containing reference to Real Traps, one of which is in this thread reacting to you. Hardly a pattern of "testimonials". You don't start off well with that type of line.
"I make my living in acoustics (I design pro sound loudspeaker systems)"..."take it VERY seriously"
So you too have something to gain by being right, as I suspected. Turf war.
"I do have a right to defend my reputation"
Perhaps, but how you do it comes across more like defending a big ego. You don't need to do it by tearing someone else down.
"It is a fact that Mr. Winer is selling products based on his idea of the best bass trap"
And you are selling your reputation, as bolstered by acceptance here of your ideas, and the attempt to paint your self as altruistic and a manufacturer as tainted by the desire to make a profit is simply obfuscation. Not all manufacturers are charlatans, and by the way, have you ever made a commercially successful bass trap type product? I tend to prefer the professionals, not the internet board self-proclaimed types.
The simple point here is...it's quite graceless to take shots at someone else in the business and try to damage a product that doesn;t agree with your own strict viewpoints, but that you seem to have no experience with.
It's classier to politely agree to disagee and accept that more than one route and/or product can get to the same place.
[ The simple point here is...it's quite graceless to take shots at someone else in the business and try to damage a product that doesn't agree with your own strict viewpoints, but that you seem to have no experience with. ]How would you come to the conclusion that I have no experience with velocity based sound absorbing panels? This would be quite strange, since a significant portion of my original DIY acoustics note deals with building your own sound absorbing wall panels, and I even comment on the importance of LF absorption for such panels, etc.
Frankly, I don't think there is much grace or class in being technically wrong, and yet trying to say the other guy is wrong.
Nor is there much grace or clas in defending said incorrect information. If you chose to beleive that I am making things up or that Ethan is right about acoustics, despite his lack of any formal training RE acoustics (it says so right at the Real Traps web site), and his repeated statements that show otherwise, fine. That's your right to do so. However, I will call you (or him, or anyone else) on it every time.I am not trying to damage anyone's product, and my 'strict viewpoints' are simply the truth about the acoustics, and nothing more. Perhaps if such an issue was not made of his false claims, there would be less need to correct them. However, you could post a few more times, and be absolutely sure that even more people find out about the incorrect acoustics info being promoted by those folks.
Jon Risch
Jon,I'm a little uncomfortable contributing to this thread, but it's clear I have to point out a few facts:
> you come to the conclusion that I have no experience with velocity based sound absorbing panels <
MiniTraps are much more than a slab of rigid fiberglass in a metal frame! They also have a dual-layer membrane, which makes them a sort of hybrid between panel traps and porous absorbers. If you look at the specs on our MiniTraps page you'll see they perform FAR better than plain rigid fiberglass. I may not have formal education in this particular field, but I know a little about acoustic materials.
Look, this isn't a pi$$ing contest about who knows more than the other guy. It amazes me that you have so far failed to answer even one of the questions I've posed among the three threads on this. I'm used to discussing acoustics and audio in various newsgroups where people talk back and forth, ask and answer questions, and generally have a good time learning. I'm here to learn too! I'm sure we can get to the bottom of how a tube trap works by discussing the issues. If I'm wrong, convince me! But taking pot shots while contributing nothing to the discussion at hand serves no purpose, and prevents anybody from learning anything.
Thanks.
--Ethan
This is silly, as I disprove your claims, you ignore them and try to obfuscate by poting more misinformation. You don't really answer anything, but you do jump to new claims to obfuscate and evade."How would you come to the conclusion that I have no experience with velocity based sound absorbing panels? "
I never said that. I said you had no experienvce with Real Traps products. You know that, and you know it's true, and that you are shooting down a product you have no experience with. Bob & weave as you like, but that's the way it is.
"despite his lack of any formal training RE acoustics (it says so right at the Real Traps web site)"
All we know about you is that you think of yourself as a very self-important guru. Ethan has a company selling successful products in this area. You don't.
"I am not trying to damage anyone's product"
Yes, you are, for the personal agenda I describe. It's not cool.
"Perhaps if such an issue was not made of his false claims, there would be less need to correct them"
It is only you who are making an issue of Ethan's approach. And only you who seems to have a need to do so.
You really do show yourself to be a rather small person with this stuff.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
