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Ok guys, I've been looking at some domestic insulation board (you know the stuff retails as kingspan or celotex) that is PU type foam, sandwiched between relatively thick aluminium. This is pretty rigid for the materials used - What are your thoughts?..Take a look here to see what I'm talking about. I thought that it could be used in conjunction with large bubble wrap to make good light isolation shelves...
Have fun
Owen
Follow Ups:
Owen,I haven't tried the stuff or seen it so I really don't know how it would work. The only comments I can offer are:
- it's definitely light but I question the rigidity. The info I read indicated that the aluminium sides are aluminium foil and kraft paper sandwiches and the web pages did say "flexible facings" so the facings themselves definitely aren't stiff. It may be stiff enough to be laid like a board, but I doubt the sides are stiff enough to support the weight of components on cones or small surface area footers and the facings may puncture under use. I think you would need to use plywood or some other material on either side as part of your construction in which case I wouldn't try using it as the outer layers of a sandwich with a bubble wrap core. I'd try using it to replace bubble wrap as the central layer and add ply or aluminium sheets to it. I found ordinary polystyrene foam to be better than bubblewrap as the central layer and this stuff may work in a similar way to the polystyrene.
- Barry raised concern about light materials ringing. The density of this material is 26-39 kg/cu.m on the version I looked at the specs for. That translates to 1.6 to 1.9 lb/cu. ft and you'd probably have around 1.5 square feet in a platform top and less than 1" thickness for the layer which translates to maybe .2 of a cubic foot (based on an inch thickness) which comes out to around .3 to .4 of a pound in weight for the material you use or half that for half inch thickness. This sort of stuff is way lighter than what I think Barry was thinking of when he spoke of light materials and foams like polystyrene don't really ring so I doubt this stuff would, even with foil sidings.
Given the fibreglass in the core of the thicker materials in the basic product, I'd look at sealing the edges in some way to prevent fibre release if you used that thickness but you'd need to be certain that whatever you used to seal the edges didn't dissolve the foam. I'd probably just use one of the thinner versions which doesn't have the fibreglass and avoid that problem. Some materials contain fibreglass in all thicknesses.
David Aiken
David,
the compression compliance, and permenant deformation were desireable - they couple the componant to the 'board' over a much larger surface area (although with the samples I have played with require a pretty strong press to dent them, and the additional deformation depth decreases in relation the increase in force applied). The two's complement idea works like this - the bubble wrap has a high resonant F, that is damped by the celotex. The whole 'board' would be resting on a solid shelf to produce reasonable isolation, without the need to resort to rollerblock type solutions.Thanks for the feedback
Owen
Owen,As I said, I've never seen the material. The web page said it was just aluminium foil on the outside so I assume it's basically the same foil as used as a reflective layer on other insulation products, and that definitely won't be stiff enough on it's own so it must be the foam itself that is providing the stiffness.
I don't believe in arguing with results - if it works, it works and the proper response is to enjoy it rather than trying to come up with reasons for why it shouldn't work or why you should hear something else, so enjoy. I'd also try it on its own and in a sandwich with ply or thin aluminium sheets on the outside. As I said, I found foams superior to bubble wrap as an inner layer but if bubble wrap on the inside gives the result you want, then stick with it.
I did find that all my platforms also worked better when I used cones between them and the shelf so I'd try that as well, regardless of how you use the material. I like the combination of cones with points down below and cones with points up above so that the points go to both the underside of the component on top and the shelf underneath. That would also present the flat side of the cone to your material which should result in minimum deformation.
David Aiken
Hi Owen,I can't really speak on this because I'm not familiar with that material.
My only concern would be any possible (?) propensity toward "ringing" which I've seen in some of the lighter foam type materials.
Perhaps David has some experience with this.
Happy Listening!
Barry
Barry,
I've a builder friend who uses this stuff all the time - if you'd like, I'll send some when I've decided on my plan of action - whatever happens the Target lump'o'iron'n'MDF is gone - the componants are stacked, as it is now a limiting factor (I've no dynamics... :-(. So I thought individual shelves, moderate resonance control, timber frame (I'm perverse like that), and am now looking at the details (such as there are).However, having a 5 month old, toddling is soon, so dynamically stable is a must, no roller blocks for me - yet.
I'll try it and report back - it may have to be 'clad' in something to improve WAF, but then she doesn't want me to spend more money... heheheh
Thanks
Owen
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