 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
Opinions! Brick wall surge protectorHi All. Let me know what you think, which configuration is better:
1. Using Brickwall PW2AUD upstream of Wiremold L10320 power strip. Or
2. Brickwall 8R15AUD alone for all the components.Like the spec of the 8R15AUD but my only concern is this unit may (Some reviewers have pointed out) limited the current (choke dynamics) of my Music fidelity HT 5 channel power amp (5x120) and Rel q100 sub woofer? PW2AUD is design more for high current amp use but it has only two-outlet and adding a power strip downstream may not benefit from it.
Thanks
Follow Ups:
The Brickwall units do seem to limit power amp dynamics.If there are any series elements, it is hard not to have SOME of this effect.
Their spiel on MOV's is a bit over the top, and more relevant to HOW most MOV's are implemented in consumer grade SS's, and not so much with the actual MOV technology and how it can be used optimally.See
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/42914.html
and
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/57861.htmlI also offer some insight into power conditioning and surge suppression at:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm
however, you do have to read the whole article.Given your two proposed options, I would recommend a third: plug the power strip into the same wall outlet as the Brickwall, and plug the power amp and subwoofer into the power strip, then plug the rest of your equipment into the Brickwall.
Jon Risch
Hi Jon, you mean plug the power amp and subwoofer into the power strip without protection of any kind (Series or MOV)?I live in an old house and my audio components are connecting to an outlet that not connected to ground wire. Brickwall claim ˇ§ˇKthe current (hence voltage) limiting of a massive inductor. Residual energy that leaks through is captured by a series of electrolytic capacitors. There it is slowly leaked back to the neutral at a harmless level. (http://www.pricewheeler.com/grndcur.htm)ˇ¨ And this is the main reason I am looking into this technology. Panamax also offer some degree of the protection if connected to two-prong outlet but they will void the connected equipment warranty (http://www.panamax.com/support/faq.asp). Any idea Panamax (MOV) will do the same thing to a power amp such as limit bass, clarity, openness, soundstage etc?
I can always buy and try it-donˇ¦t like it and returning it. But then again I would like to gather some Brickwall/similar product userˇ¦s experiences so that I know what I can look for.
Thanks to all the inmates for your thoughtful advice and suggestions.
CCaudio
BTW, I enjoy reading the posting here at AA. I just finished two Mr. Crump DIY power cord and I am going to try out your DIY IC-89207 next.
The Brickwall(Zero Surge) is as good as it gets from a protection point of view. However it is a series circuit that clamps down on a surge that exceeds 2 volts above peak line voltage 172 volts nominal and has an auto tracking series current limiter. These ciruits operate with only a 2ns delay, ie. almost immediately(important from the surge protection point of view). I have sold the unit in its parent company product name of Zero Surge and have used it for my gear with the exception of my amp and preamp. When I took my amp and moved it from the Zero Surge to the wall the difference was substantial since when peaks are hit the Zero Surge will just clamp down and severly limit bass, clarity, openness, soundstage etc, For all other gear it's excellent.I would plug the Zero Surge directly into the wall and plug whatever strips you wish into it and plug all non power related gear into the unit or the strips following it. Amps Preamps or any other power cleaning or power related equipment I would definitely not plug into the unit or any strips that ware plugged into the unit.
Regards
CCAudio,I had been doing the first for over a year now. I've got the Zerosurge 2R20 which is the same as the brickwall unit you're looking at. Since there is only one outlet (two plugs) isolation isn't an issue. I've found it to be a very good solution using a tripplite isobar downstream from the 2R20. I've recently added a couple of components and removed the 2R20 (which is for sale - email me if you are interested) and put in another brickwall with more outlets.
See this link. I'd be interested in hearing comments on this forum.
Julie's Husband,I wrote to Ryan Cox of Brickwall and inventor Rudy Harford at Zero Surge, inviting them to defend their product with independent testing data against the assertions on the forum you provided the link to. As a customer, I experssed my concern about the assertion that the design has a serious flaw. I also provided a link to this forum for them. I have spoken to Rudy Harford, and he sounds pretty down to earth, as engineers tend to do.
Maybe Mr. Harford will produce something of interest.
DaveD
which shuts off the power if there is a surge versus the shunt mode which uses MOVs to carry (shunt) the surge to earth.The problem with MOVs is that every time there is a surge they lose a little effectiveness. Sooner or later they will no longer be effective at all. If you live in a high area of power surges or lightening strikes, you could see this much too soon.
I have some experience in the computer industry with MOVs and have seen them fail time and again- with very bad effects on the equipment they were supposed to protect.
That's why I have a Brickwall.
Of a buddy who paid over $5,000 for a painting (not an original) recently and asked me what I thought of it. I could hardly see it because it was behind a slightly tinted glass and there were reflections from the lights in the room bouncing off of it. I asked him, why did you get glass put on it? He replied, to keep it safe. I asked, so, you spent 5 grand on a painting no one can enjoy? He said, uhh, interesting point.My opinion is to keep your AC connections simple and forego all the protection IF your goal is high-resolution audio playback. If you don't care about the latter, either will work fine.
-- Greg
PS - You might also consider the last time your audio gear was fried (or other electric item), what part of the country you live, how reliable your electric service is, etc. That may help you determine if you need this. I do use a BW on my HDTV.
Greg,
Frying electronic equipment, including computers, is really not the proper analogy. It is more like boiling a victim by putting them in water and gradually increasing the heat. Nothing much is noticed until it is too late. Dozens of small surges every day add up slowly to degradation.I don't know what the answer is, beyond having your own generator for your audio system, free of surges. I know that the Brick Wall gives maximum protection (unlike audiophile units), and I think that the harm done to dynamics is minimal, and less than some gargantuan audiophile units. The noise filtering is important to clean sound, and these units do it very well.
With the 30 day trial period, why not try one yourself?
Respectfully sumitted,
DaveD
My experience has been it sacrifices too much, mainly resolution and dynamics (I wouldn't describe it as minimal). It depends on priorities...like anything else. Should have put IMO/IME on prior note. I think my analogy is appropriate...I don't understand yours.-- Greg
The BrickWall is a quality unit. As said earlier, you get a 30-day money back guarantee. What's to lose? Try it for yourself. Like it -- keep it. Don't like it -- send it back.By the way, here's my experience with PriceWheeler. I heard a buzz in the unit and called them up (2 years AFTER my purchase). I was told that I could send the unit in for another one or for a refund (!). I told them "no way". The problem ended up being the bigscreen TV that I had plugged into the unit. They were told that the buzz only happened with the TV, yet they still made the same offer. You can't beat that for great customer service.
As far as limiting dynamics et al, I've not experienced that problem with a BrickWall -- the 15amp 8-outlet or the two 20amp 2-outlet models that I own.
By the way, if you value your equipment, you will protect it. Plugging expensive equipment directly into the wall is not too intelligent -- regardless of what anyone tells you.
The BW is probably one of the better surge suppression devices; no debate here.I have the 15A unit on my TV but it impaired sound quality when I tried it on my audio equipment (as I stated). I guess I value the sound my equipment produces more the equipment itself...the hardware is a means to an end. I have insurance to cover catastropic events. As I said, it's a matter of priorities. The equipment is worthless if it doesn't sound its best. IMO/IME.
> > Plugging expensive equipment directly into the wall is not too intelligent -- regardless of what anyone tells you. < <
Huh? Maybe I shouldn't even turn it on - but just stare at it. :)
Enjoy!
-- Greg
I have been using the 8R15AUD with a Hafler 9300 power amp and all other components. I have no problem with dynamics, but I am not a head banger. The filtering is very good, in my opinion, and the ACTUAL protection from surges is more valuable than most audiophiles realize. This unit has each outlet isolated via ferrite beads, to keep digital nasties out of the system.The power strip would work fine with the two outlet unit, with your power amp directly into the Brick Wall unit. But, you would not have the isolation in the power strip outlets. Plug the CD player directly, and the power amp and everything else into the power strip. I AM ASSUMING THAT THE 2 OUTLET AUD UNIT ALSO HAS THE TWO OUTLETS ISOLATED FROM EACH OTHER. You will have to confirm this.
I spoke with designer Rudy Harford about the current limiting, and he was pretty skeptical about it happening with the 15 amp 8 outlet unit. But, they offer the 20 amp 2 outlet unit to satisfy the audiophiles. If you can try the 8 outlet unit with an exchange priviledge, I would to that. I actually think that you would be painfully damaging your hearing before the 15 amp unit would limit your amp, unless your speakers are very inefficient. This is for your main amp. Actually, the usual use of the 20 amp Brick Wall is separately for subwoofer amps. You have already spent mucho on the subwoofer, so why not get both Brick Wall units?
Oh, I forgot.With the 30 day trial period, you can try the 8 outlet unit for everything, and if you have dynamics problems you can add the other unit for your subwoofer, or make a trade and try the 20 amp unit for everything.
DaveD
I've been using the 8 outlet version of the Brickwall since before they made an Aud(io) version. In several A/B comparisons over the years I've never noticed a diminution of dynamics and only a small (if any) filtering improvement with McCormack DNA-1 or PS Audio HCA-2 amps. But I have relatively efficient speakers and don't listen at head-banging levels. Never burned out any equipment either, but then I don't know if my lines have ever had a dangerous AC surge. Kind of like putting elephant repellant in your yard -- how would you know if it worked? Adding a Transcendent Sound Balanced Power Supply ($349 kit) made a much more noticeable difference -- blacker backgrounds, less subliminal hisssss.
Having recently acquired one of the big (20 amp) units from Equi-tech, I'm a big fan of these kinds of products as providing a genuine improvement in sound quality. Other makers besides Transcendant are: Furman Sound, Blue Circle Audio, Balanced Power Technologies.Most of them also include some sort of surge protection -- usually MOV-based. If you accept Brickwall's conceptual argument against MOV surge protection, then nothing but theirs will do.
However, my balanced supply improves system dynamics; it certainly does not limit it.
What power cord are you running on your amp?
Hi mbryan,
do,"transcendent sound balanced power supply", have a site on the net ?
Thanks
durgae
http://www.transcendentsound.com/power_supply.htm
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
