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In Reply to: Re: Steve Eddy--get on the case already posted by the_neighbor on April 12, 2002 at 06:02:42:
well, the silver rock does use silver wire, last time i checked a pair of the british TVC's cost about $300, so that leaves $2400 for a chasis... what would the silver upgrade version of the big dog cost???dave
Follow Ups:
Dave,
First of all you are assuming that they are using a standard off the shelf part. If you go to there web site I do believe that they are using a "custom" designed part. At no point, on their web site, is there any mention of silver or copper windings so I think that you're just speculating at this point. After exchanging emails with Carlos at Seamless Interface I found out that they experimented with both Silver and copper windings in their design and arrived to a conclution as to what "sounded" best and not about hype. To quote from his email:"Richard please try a number of different silver, copper or silver clad copper interconnects and I belive at the end of the day you will not come up to a clear conclusion of which is better. In the end what matters is the inplementation and not the material. Just because a coil winding is silver doesn't mean that it will sound better than a copper one. Everything in and on the Big Dog was chosen for the bottom line which is the sound! And not to fulfill some cliche! The Big Dog is the best preamplifier that we CAN design regardless of price. The Big Dog was designed as price is no object product and I guess we got lucky because we arrived at our goal at only $2,700.00."
Dave, I had the same concerns as you and I think that Carlos put those concerns to rest with his reply. He's both an engineer and audiophile. I find him honest and his products priced fairly. You can't go wrong with simple logic.
well, from experience silver wound volume controls sound different than copper wound ones, which sounds better is a subjective thing, and to pontificate on subjective matters is foolish, as steve pointed out the word custom in a fixed product seems to be an oxymoron... the word custom suggests a "one off" tailored for a speciffic system... in any event what i took issue with was your suggestion that the silver rock was a ripoff because of a $17 bud box, when for the same money you could get a beautifully finished product possibly wound with silver... one only has to price silver magnet wire and see where the silver rocks pricetag comes from, and i applaud them for offering a no bells and whistles product for those who care only about the sound, and then a pricey version for the slaves to fashion.in other words what counts???
looks
whats inside
soundsadly too many people base their sonic impressions on looks or what inside, when in reality that really shouldn't matter.
dave
Dave,
At no time did I intend to call the Silver Rock a ripoff. I was just stating the facts; and that it's built inside a "Brick" size bud box is a fact, please refer to the pictures as they speak for themselves.Now as to the sound, I have only heard good things about the Silver Rock and that's what got me interested in TVC's. But to blindly assume that silver wound coils sound better than copper is a mistake. It has been well documented that silver tends to favor the high frequencies as compared to copper but many people also find the sound of silver "Thin". Obviously this is another topic each and of itself.
But please don't prejudge a product based on its good looks and just because it happens to be less expensive than an established product. For my $2,700.00 I'm going to be getting all that I wanted from a TVC while not getting what I thought were short commings for a reference product. Just as an FYI, the preamp that the "Big Dog" will be replacing is Cello Etude. To some of us looks do matter and getting what we feel is our moneys' worth is important also!
the silver rock is also indirectly what got me interested in TVC's too...and i am not predjudiced... joeseph lau makes an autoformer unit in a simple box for $399 maybe that slays them both??? unfortunately i cannot make that judgement because i have never heard them... my whole comment was that the use of silver wire goes a long way to explain the price difference between the two units... i'm not making any judgements, just pointing that out...
dave
First of all you are assuming that they are using a standard off the shelf part. If you go to there web site I do believe that they are using a "custom" designed part.The word "custom" should always be taken with a bit of a grain of salt by consumers. Especially if there's no specific mention made of just what is "custom" about it and how it improves performance over the off-the-shelf version. I mean, you can just have the company's name or logo stamped on the part and call it "custom."
The Seamless is obviously using Sowter transformers. The only difference in terms of specifications is the maximum attenuation. 52dB for the Seameless versus 48dB for the Sowter 9335. So perhaps the only thing "custom" is the choice of secondary taps.
And I'm not saying this to in any way to detract from the Seamless' overall quality. Just pointing out that "custom" is often a rather worthless term. At least as far as the consumer's concerned. It can (and does) often enhance the marketability of a product.
se
Understood! And I agree for the most part.
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