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In the new year, I will be having an electrician come to my house to install two 20A dedicated lines for my amps. Are there any things he should do specially for these lines? Hospital grade connectors for the outlets, etc?
Follow Ups:
OK, I'm going to do it next week. I went to Lowe's and got everything I think I need for about $45:20A Isolated Ground Hospital Grade outlet (Eagle brand, cause that's all they had and noone else in town had any HG at all)
50' of 20-2 wire (just the basic stuff)
20A breaker for my box (discovered one's selection is constrained by the make of one's box)
associated conduit, etc.
I was going to do a dedicated ground until I found out that meant I would have to drive an 8 foot cooper rod in the ground. (Maybe I'll do it later?)
I've only got one empty slot in my box, so I don't really have much choice regarding phase, etc. It looks like the only big thing on that side is the clothes dryer though.
I'm not moving anything around in the box since it is an older model without a Main switch so I'm going to have to do it hot. Popping in a breaker shouldn't kill me but I'm not touching anything else. Which leads me to a problem: the connector in the box for the new breaker is corroded badly. Any suggestions on how to clean it, considering it's going to be hot? I'm thinking wooden emory board.Also, should I solder, caulk, or grease over the connections?
One more question. What does Isolated Ground mean vis-a-vis Hospital Grade sockets?
Any other suggestions/comments on the job before I get started?
BTW, I plan to keep my Tripplite surge protector for my sources and plug my int. amp directly into the wall.
Thanks a bunch. You all have been very helpful in this and other related strings.
nt
!
Should it have been 20-3?
To do everything BUT put in the higher quality outlet. That was one 20a breaker and wire - he ran it. He also replaced another 15a breaker with a 20a after seeing the cabling was sufficient to handle it. After watching him do this, I will call him again if and when I need to do this again. If the job is straight-forward, it will cost less. I think he was here for about two hours.-- Greg
Man, if I were you, I'd call an electrician.If you're using a plastic box for your outlets, isolated ground is meaningless because the box is not conductive.
I'd try with and without the Tripplite; then I'd dump the tripplite for the receiver; maybe they'd work ok on digital or tv. The tripplite will defeat all of what you are trying to do here for any component that consumes any kind of current.
Looking at your equipment, it might not even pull enough power to justify this exercise. But one thing you can try is to swap in the new outlets now to see if you gain anything. Flip the breaker off first.
Be careful!
-- Greg
I use a single dedicated line with a dedicated ground. The ground terminal of the receptacle is wired to a nearby ground rod. The utility ground is unconnected. I considered adding additional lines but because the job would require a mason as well as an electrician I wanted to be sure the expenditure would be worthwhile. Using a nearby wall outlet I conducted a series of tests. After each change I did a quick listen and checked my socks.For the initial tests I rewired the dedicated outlet to use only the utility ground.
1. All components powered from dedicated socket. Socks OK.
2. CDP in alternate wall outlet, amp in dedicated outlet. Socks OK.
3. CDP in dedicated outlet, amp in alternate wall outlet. Socks OK.For the final tests I rewired the dedicated outlet to use only the dedicated ground.
4. Same as #3. Socks below ankles.
5. Same as #2. Socks around toes.
6. Same as #1. Socks nowhere to be found.The best results were obtained when all components were on the dedicated AC with dedicated ground. Image and resolution were greatly improved and the noise floor all but disappeared. I think the key ingredient here is the dedicated ground. Have any of you performed similar comparisons and what were your conclusions?
This is what I did recently. Used #3 - 10 guage wires in metal conduit (not Romex) with Isolated Ground Leviton receptacles.
I had this done in my home six month ago and let me give you a few clues. All of posts to this thread contain good information and please use them, it will save you time and money in the long run. First, set your system up where the amp and preamp are on separate circuits if possible. If you use CD, DVD, or HDTV (all digital) have them on a separate circuit. Have the audio circuits on a dedicated ground so you don't have to worry about appliances generating noise in the system. Use a shielded wire, they make a 12/3 with ground for fire alarms. If you can find a 10/3 shielded even better. Hears the most important thing though. Run the wiring as close together as possible or you will end up with a ground loop like I did (a really stupid mistake keeping them separated). I suggest that since you are going to the expense and trouble to upgrade, get Wattage outlets- best in the business.Good listening
:/
Hospital grade outlets are NOT recommended due to the plating. Get heavy use industrial spec grade outlets instead. This topic has been beat to death many times here. Search the archives.
nt
get them to use 10 AWG wire.
They will swear up and down that 14 is sufficient.
Separate pulls for each amp.Get them to clean the tips of the wire with steel wool or
a wire brush or de-ox before inserting in the panel or the
outlets. Seems that house grade copper wire has a pretty
hard outer layer which may be a result of the manufacturing
process.try to get any runs for the stereo system to be of the same length,
even if this means wasting a little wire for the "close" run.
This will equalize the ground path and keep all the
electronics in-phase.Avoid long parallel runs with other circuits.
If you can afford it, do the entire run in grounded conduit.
Do use hospital or heavy duty grade recepticles with Isolated
ground - older houses (well what we call old in CA)
often have metal shell boxes which are grounded.
IF you are putting in new outlets, they may just punch thru the
dry wall and put in plastic boxes. These are not grounded so you
don't need isolated ground.while you are at it, if you have an older house, get them to put
in a new ground rod. Previously there was a lot of discussion
about where the new rod should be. I now believe that
there should be a single ground for the house electrical system.
This may not be the best thing for eliminating noise, but
it is the best for lightning safety. If the new ground rod
is installed real close to the old rod, then put all the stereo
grounds on it.in any case, inspect and clean the contact to the ground rod.
A few thoughts. First of all, explain very carefully to the electrician why you're doing this, and make sure he understands it's not just another ordinary circuit. He'll think you're nuts, because this will likely be something he's never heard of. So you'll have to give very specific instructions. In advance of the electrician coming, check at the breaker panel as to what appliances are on which phase. Maybe you'll want to get the electrician to re-arrange a couple of circuits there so that the new circuits won't be on the same phase as the fridge and the furnace. Can't do much about the A/C or dryer as they use both phases. Use the largest gauge cable you're willing to pay for, and that your outlets/breakers will accomodate. Try not to run the new cables alongside existing ones, and not near any metal-work (pipes, ducts). Let the electrician decide on the shortest do-able cable path. The cable run is important to do right as it's not easy for you to change later. Outlets and breakers you could easily change yourself. Sure you could use HG outlets, but some prefer the best industrial spec grade. As for breakers, I don't know, and haven't read much here. I do know, from tests at work, that they're not all the same, but I wasn't testing for sonic characteristics. They're really as bad or worse than a fuse, but a necessary evil. Maybe specifically ask about them here. I remember one of the moderators (I think, Stephaen?) posted some really good info on the dedicated run he put in. Look for it.
Lot of good advice. Don't forget about shielded cable. I used two runs of RG214 cable, one for hot, one for neutral. Shield of both cables is used as a ground wire. Results are very good.Be prepared that you will have to buy such cable by yourself.
Cheers,
Mirek
IMPORTANT: If each line has it's own breaker be sure that they are on the same phase.
Excuse my ignorance but what do you all mean by the circuits being in the same phase?
You have 2 120 volt lines and a gound comming into you breaker box. Keep all your audio equipment on the same 120 volt circuit. If you
you go done one side of the breaker box and have full size breakers (1") every other one will be on the same phase. If you have some half size (1/2") breakers they are connected in pairs to the same phase. Every other pair will be on the same phase.Also, move your A/C, furnace and refrigerator to the same circuit
and use the other circuit for you audio equipment. If you do not know what you are doing call an electrician as 240 volts can be deadly.
Jerry, in your second paragraph you referred to putting AC, etc., on the same *circuit* and the audio on another circuit. Is *circuit* the same as *phase* for purposes of this discussion?To put it another way, are there two circuits with opposite phases?
Jerry, in your second paragraph you referred to putting AC, etc., on the same *circuit* and the audio on another circuit. Is *circuit* the same as *phase* for purposes of this discussion? {Yes}To put it another way, are there two circuits with opposite phases?
{Yes}circuit = phase
This can be confusing because a circuit can also be equal to a single run from a breaker box. For example, I called the electician and told them I needed a new circuit installed. There are only 2 phases, no more no less (they cannot install a new phase). The left half of the breaker box contains one phase, and the other side houses the second phase.-- Greg
Greg, if your breaker box had one phase on the left side and one phase on the right side how would 2 pole ganged breakers work? You need to have every other breaker position on a different phase. This is so you can supply 240 volts to major appliances when you install a 2 pole ganged breaker. If your electrician told you that your box has one phase on the left and the other phase on the right get a new electrician.
I got mixed up. You're right, that wouldn't work the way I wrote that. I guess that's why I hired an electrician. He knew what he was doing. :)-- Greg
Sorry for the confusion. Yes there are only 2 phases and many circuits. In regard to breaker boxes, every modern box I have seen or worked with alternate phases as you go down each side of the box.
This is when you use full size (1") breakers. You can verify this by
doing a voltage check on the output of the breaker. If you measure 240 volts between two breakers they are on different phases. If you measure 0 volts they are on the same phase. What brand of breaker box do you have?
I was just trying to clarify. I have a Square D, I believe.On a related note, scroll up a bit and read the note from K-Bob in this same thread. I think he needs some advice and guidance.
-- Greg
Yes to hospital grade outlets.Also ensure that there are no "splices" in the run between outlet and circuit breaker box. But there probably won't be unless he adds more than the one pair of outlets.
Just for the record...I noticed no improvement with the added 20A dedicated line until I put the hospital grade outlets in (Leviton). Then I realized a smoother, less hashy sound. Dismissed it the first day, but it was still there the second day.-- Greg
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