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In Reply to: RE: "The wire leading away from the speaker doesn't affect the sound" posted by geoffkait on May 21, 2023 at 13:23:34
I get that but the the E and B fields are affected by the wire and by all the wire equally, not just the wire leading to the speaker but also the wire leading away from the speaker.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Follow Ups:
The Poynting vector is most likely an electromagnetic wave which explains how the actual signal produced by the amplifier gets to the speaker instantaneously, the E and B fields are not like the electrons, which don't really move. It's the E and B fields that control the diaphragm not the electrons. Electrons may be a bit of a red herring. A better way to view this is the moving E and B fields coming into and away from the speaker. We now realize electrons only move a millionth of an inch at a time so they can't suddenly appear a meter or two downstream from the amp. The E and B fields are variable in terms of length and amplitude so the speaker diaphragm can play long notes and adjust to dynamics. The E and B fields contain the energy. The Poynting vector is the energy flux density. The Poynting vector and the E and B fields are a function of the physical and electrical characteristics of the metal wire. The speed of the Poynting vector through the dielectric is near lightspeed.
Edits: 05/21/23
"The Poynting vector and the E and B fields are a function of the physical and electrical characteristics of the metal wire."
Yes. A function of all the wire in the complete circuit, all at the same time, in the moment. Moment by moment.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
That's why ALL wire in ALL circuits in the system should be controlled for directionality, including all wiring in the electronics, the transformer wire, internal speaker wire, fuses, power cord, etc. because they are ALL operating *simultaneously." What happens with the AC power cord and the AC power fuse affects the final sound, and so forth.
Edits: 05/22/23 05/22/23
Yes, but you say to face the "good" direction of the wire "towards" the speaker.
That means the bad direction of the wire is facing away from the speaker.
The bad direction of both wires is being used to flow the electrons away from the speaker and I am trying to explain to you that that is just as bad as the bad direction of the wire flowing the electrons towards the speaker.
The voice coil doesn't know the difference. All the wire matters exactly the same. It makes no difference if the electrons are going towards the speaker's voice coil or away from it.
Anything bad that is happening in either wire, at any point along the length of either wire, in either direction, will directly affect what is happening in the voice coil wire.
The two speakers wires and the voice coil wire should be thought of as one contentious piece of wire. Because electrically they are.
You talk about the electrons flowing "towards" the speaker and 'away" from the speaker. What exactly do you mean by "towards" the speaker? Where do you draw the line? At the speakers wire terminal on the back of the speaker box? Or the speaker terminals on the frame of the speaker driver itself?
I say the electrons are flowing towards (or away) from the electrical center of the voice coil wire. That would make more sense from an engineering stand point. So now your whole theory falls to pieces.
You need to think of audio electronics this way, everything that happens in a circuit happens at the same time everywhere in that circuit.
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. A weakness anywhere in a audio circuit affects the whole circuit.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
We have have just discussed the electrons really aren't moving in the conductor, just a millionth of an inch at a time, on average. So in reality electrons in the fuse or cable or wherever upstream never advance beyond that point. Net velocity is zero. They just wiggle back and forth at audio frequency. The E field (and B field), on the other hand, is affected by all wire and cables upstream and is part and parcel of the Poynting vector, which is an electromagnetic wave. You haven't been paying attention to my last few posts. We're off electrons. They are a distraction, a red herring. It's the E field that is the "audio signal" not the electrons. The E and B fields contain the energy as has been pointed out, and are located entirely outside the conductor.
Edits: 05/22/23 05/22/23 05/22/23
"It's the E field that is the "audio signal" not the electrons."
That is correct and that E field is affected by both wires. The wire going away from the speaker just as much as the wire going towards the speaker.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
But only one wire works at a time. When one wire is doing the work you can ignore the other wire and what's happening on it. That's why the direction of both wires matters. Are you about to have a breakthrough?
It takes both wires or nothing happens.You have to understand that, don't you?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 05/22/23
As Randall McMurphy said in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest after he failed to lift the 300 lbs water cooler by himself, at least I tried. Good luck in your quest for mediocrity.
Tre - are you trying to convince him, refute him, or are you letting him drag you along and endlessly confuse you. This discussion has i.e. done little good and only entertained him. He always gets a thrill out of that because this is only on a conceptual level - "relating to or based on mental concepts"
otherwise he should have included a link to at least one reference paper or book to verify and confirm it
"Polemics" - "the art or practice of engaging in controversial debate or dispute" usually ends up with no definitive conclusion. If I am in err, then let it continue
I don't know what his game is but it is clear he has no understanding of audio electronics.
Unless this is all just a silly game?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The audiophiles who bought more than 150,000 advanced audiophile fuses, all of which are directional, or...-. You?
A whole lot of people like the Bose model 901s speakers driven by 1970's Japanese SS receivers. That only proves that people, in general, are stupid.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
My game is to educate you. But you think you know it all. Typical pseudo skeptics game. Straighten up and fly right. Don't be a mossback.
Edits: 05/22/23
I am telling you that if I changed your wire direction without your knowledge you would never hear the difference.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
it's his game, he thinks he's calling the shots and thinks he can lead anyone around on a leash. Don't forget to look up Machina Dynamica and Geoff Kait on Bing, don't use Google. There's a bunch of stuff there which may answer a few questions about who you're dealing with
I have seen his website.
It all a bunch a BS
but you know hat they say about a fool and his money?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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