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In Reply to: RE: Have you forgotten this exchange, Lew? posted by Tre' on August 04, 2020 at 20:30:09
I decided to remind Lew of his exchange with Ralph, hoping he had actually tried Ralph's suggested experiment and would post his results.
Ralph's explanation regarding voltage drop at least offered me some possible scientific plausibility regarding the efficacy of various fuses and/or their directionality.
Meanwhile, I'm busy trying to see if I can improve a 12AX7 based phono stage I build years ago, and honestly, that interests me a lot more than "the sound of" fuses.
Follow Ups:
An inexpensive sand-filled ceramic fuse with silver alloy wire is a good place to start (or end). It's better sounding than a typical glass fuse, IME.
See link:
Are these Aucharm safety certified?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Alfred E. Neuman
I would expect the product is built by a reputable Taiwanese manufacturer. A fuse is not something amateurs attempt to build without concern about consumer safety. The Taiwanese and Chinese electrical products I choose to use have no UL safety certification involved, neither do the vast majority of audiophile power cords sourced from anywhere in the world. Nobody is twisting listeners arms to use a silver alloy fuse from Taiwan if they don't wish to. Perhaps you will do the grunt work and investigate the nature of consumer safety guidelines in Taiwan and report back to the forum.
A fuse is a safety device, a power cord is not. By your "logic" there is no need for any certification of fuses. Those who object to using any fuse that has not been certified by an independent organization like UL or CCC, Chinese Compulsory Certification or a number of others are completely reasonable in wanting independent certification of a safety device like a fuse, IMHO.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Alfred E. Neuman
I did not object to 1973shovel's position on the subject, nor anyone else's.
You asked if the product is safety certified:
The AMR Gold Fuse is the same product as the Aurcharm and the MS Audio Valab fuse. According to AMR Audio, the product involves UL SA PSE CE CCC approval.
See link:
Thanks Duster.
"Fuse Skeptic" was not the best choice of words for me to use. In retrospect, I like Lew's "agnostic" a lot better. I honestly do try and keep an open mind about some of these things.
As I said to Lew below, I'm not comfortable using a fuse, whether it costs $3 or $150, without knowing if it meets UL test requirements for opening when it's supposed to.
I know some make the same argument about aftermarket power cords not having UL approval. That doesn't bother me (if they're well made), because I have fire extinguishers. But an internal malfunction in an irreplaceable amplifier causing it to be destroyed because a fuse from Taiwan did not open properly, that's a risk I'm not willing to take.
Just a heads-up, 1973shovel.
See link:
"Ralph's explanation regarding voltage drop at least offered me some possible scientific plausibility regarding the efficacy of various fuses and/or their directionality. "
I agree. It's just that every time this comes up it surprises me no one seems to have thought of trying no fuse. That's the only way to get a base line.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Everybody knows that one inch of bad wire...
Sorry, I couldn't resist it.
Oh but it's true, it's true. This is why, for the test to be valid, you have to use the same wire as the wire leading to and from the fuse holder. :-)
I am so grateful that I received a good electronic education early in life so I wouldn't fall into the many traps of this nutty hobby.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I do understand, Tre'. As an example, when I started fooling around with upgrading old tube equipment back in the early 1990s, a friend suggested I take a basic electricity course, which I did.
I was a Stereophile reader at the time, and when the instructor described electrons moving through copper wire, I clearly remember thinking to myself, "Then how can wire affect 'sound'?". Yet I had taken part in a blind (but not double-blind) impromptu interconnect listening test, where differences were heard by those of us sitting in front of the speakers.
My point is, if a basic electricity class caused doubts, then I can only imagine what having an engineering degree might do to my thinking. Voodoo and magic come to mind. I recently found a post by Twystd (link below), where he was comparing unbypassed cathode resistors, metal film to carbon film. His EE friend was there, heard the difference, and, "He immediately got angry and accused me of trickery, then stormed out."
So, like Lew, I'm somewhere in the middle. I have my doubts, but try and keep an open mind. Call it a Missourian "show me" approach, even though I've never been to Missouri.
But there is a problem right out of the gate. Do you know what unbypassed cathode resistors do to the performance of a tube?I'm not saying that resistors all sound the same, they don't. But the overall sound of a circuit using an unbypassed cathode resistor will be greatly compromised to start with so you might just end up just comparing crap to more crap.
I don't find much value in that.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 08/06/20
"But the overall sound of a circuit using an unbypassed cathode resistor will be greatly compromised to start with so you might just end up just comparing crap to more crap."
After a quick look at the schematics, I don't believe any of my equipment uses cathode bypass caps!
At the risk of getting a legitimate STFU from the original poster, I'll post any further questions I have over on DIY Tubes.
Thanks Tre'!
Even to find that one fuse sounds any different from another would be interesting, and in fact, I had that experience, but I am still not quite willing to believe my ears. There were 4 other audiophiles in the room, at least two of whom are highly respected audio designers known to us all. The fuse was fusing the LED display on an otherwise totally passive preamplifier, which was really only an attenuator, no AC required. So, we did it for fun, comparing a boutique fuse to a hardware store fuse that came with the unit. All of us agreed with no dissent that the sound was better with the cheap fuse. Go figure.
In keeping with the kind of argument Ralph made, I guess it's possible that having a clean contact surface at each end of a fuse is important, on the notion that unwanted resistance and/or whatever inductance and capacitance can be elicited by a poor contact might alter the AC. I don't even like airing this idea; it's grasping at straws for sure.
"The fuse was fusing the LED display on an otherwise totally passive preamplifier"
That would be a place to safely try no fuse at all.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The opportunity to do that is long gone. The system and the attenuator were not mine, and now my friend who owned that system has sold it lock, stock, and barrel. In order to downsize.
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