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In Reply to: RE: Any advantage to having a bigger trafo on headphone amp? posted by Lew on July 02, 2017 at 19:12:54
You'd still be feeding it through the internal diodes, and (probably) regulators inside the headphone amp, since the Shiit is designed to be fed AC, with rectification and filtering done internally.Jedrider stated in his post below, "So, if you feed it clean DC, it doesn't really have to do much to it, i.e. it's filtering will be mostly irrelevant."
I suppose that depends on how one defines "mostly". I was feeding my Graham Slee phono stage +24 VDC from two motorcycle batteries in series. I discovered an internal 7818 regulator, which I eventually replaced with a +18 V Belleson SuperPower to great result, better than any cable upgrade I've ever done, for example.(link below)
Apparently the 7818 was adding its own noise, even when fed from what many believe is the best DC power source, batteries.
A well built outboard DC power supply might indeed improve things. But unless the internal diodes and regulators are bypassed, it's likely going to be a compromise.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Edits: 07/04/17Follow Ups:
Until I read the other post, I did not realize how the Schiit is constructed. In that case I would advocate bypassing the internal supply, as well. For Tweakers, only.
and probably less expensive...but it makes upgrades more difficult when everything, including the power supply is contained on one circuit board.A few years ago I was considering trying a phono stage (not the Shiit) that was getting some positive press. I decided against it for the same reasons we're discussing here, because it was built with an external AC rather than DC supply.
I'd much rather have the option to do as you suggested, Lew, and build a high quality external DC supply, without having to cut traces, solder in jumpers, etc, likely destroying any resale value in the process.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Edits: 07/04/17
Certainly more savvy than I am with regards to what they are doing. There's probably not that much to be gained by fiddling with the Schiit or the iPhono2, for examples.
"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be. 'Cause now I'm an amputee" J. Lennon
Yeah Lew, you're probably right. Why bother trying to improve equipment. He is probably already using the very best filter caps, like Elna Silmic II or Nichicon muse. I'd bet dollars to donuts he is using soft recovery diodes or Schottky. Probably using metal foil resistors also. The transformer is big enough and the thin wires on it are about as good as you can get on this or any other planet. Maybe even the planet you are from. Or maybe you could be full of Schiit?? Like WTF. Why is there even a tweaker's asylum forum? I was foolish in the past to think it was here for tweakers. Tweekie666
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
requires a sharp analytical mind? Sure, there may be some compromises on parts cost, in order to meet a price point for marketing the item. And if you want to "upgrade" the parts quality, go for it.
You want to cast me in the anti-tweaker role. I won't play that part. I wrote elsewhere that a completely discrete outboard supply would be the no-holds-barred way to go, if one is so inclined. For those who are put off by such notions, because they lack skill, knowledge, or experience, the product probably has been well thought out to begin with, if the company building it is reputable, like Schiit or iFi.
Yo Lew, my sharp analytical mind doesn't understand the relevance of your question. I think swapping in better sounding parts makes things sound better. "The only thing he did was change the transformer. We went from a 100mA transformer to a 10A transformer"exactly the same voltage, the circuit was drawing no more current"and the DIFFERENCE was just STAGGERING. To this day it's one of the biggest differences I've ever heard." I kinda like this quote from the Paul McGowan link posted by 1973shovel. Pure hyperbolicness I guess. Why even bother trying to make one's system sound just a tini wini bit better? T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
Edits: 07/07/17
.. in fact it's possible to completely screw up a power supply by fitting expensive high-performance components, in much the same way you can mess up the handling of a car by fitting expensive alloy wheels and low profile tires.
I think his point is a little more subtle, maybe. There has to be a cost/benefit review before undertaking costly improvements, like adding a $100+ power supply to a $50 hock-shop headphone amp. (I don't have a huge junkbox any more that I can pull parts from.)
I have no doubt that an outboard high-current DC power supply would bring a sonic improvement, but the ultimate performance level it can achieve under the best of circumstances is probably not going to be worth the cost.
I think that a **cost-appropriate** level of improvement might be to use nice fat transformer and some nice fat wire, hardwired in, like I was thinking originally.
Those regs are like 40 to $50 each. Diode upgrades with new caps and tranny will be a huge difference even without these hyper expensive regulators. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
They work very well. Finding the right transformer is more difficult though because they're generally expensive. Finding a discarded, formerly decent CD player usually yields a good transformer and parts as well.
Just to find the "right" piece of vintage stuff to salvage the trafo from...
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