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In Reply to: RE: Mad Scientist Graphene-based Contact Enhancer posted by thegage on March 09, 2017 at 12:38:28
at Lowering The Noise Floor and Increased Dynamics in both Sound Quality and Picture Quality...Amazing transparency...
I first did all my male AC Plug prongs, then moved on to all the non audio video plugs around the house (Refrigerator, toaster oven, lamps, washer/dryer)...
Speaker Cables and RCA Interconnects were next...
Took apart all my DIY Power Cords and did all connections...
I also did my Circuit Breaker Panel...Did all my Audio and Video system breakers first and then moved on to the rest of the house...
Not recommended if you are not comfortable around live AC Circuits... I can isolate my Circuit Breaker Panel by killing outdoor disconnect to panel...
Also USB and HDMI cables... Only did the outer shell on HDMI and USB Cables...
Did all my fuses in my AVR Receiver in my HT System...
I did NOT do my Ethernet Cables or Phone Cables because of the close contacts...
Also on RCA connectors I only applied to the male connector Hot...
Only about 1/8" on the center prong...And nothing on the Hot Female Chassis connector... Only lightly apply to the outer Ground of the Female connector...
Used Nitrile Gloves to protect my hands...
make a few jokes even though I am a confirmed tweaker and need nobodys proof to try something.
you said: """then moved on to all the non audio video plugs around the house (Refrigerator, toaster oven, lamps, washer/dryer)..""""
Refrigerator: So I'm guessing crisper lettuce, more detailed citrus notes leaner meat,
toaster oven: cruchier toast, melted cheese adheres better to its host
Lamps: clarity, brightness were the areas in which these "shined"
washer/dryer: whiter whites, less electrostatic discharge and EMI
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Electric recliner alll the way back rim job - high frequency extension lots of air.
The literature that came with the enhancer states that MS hasn't seen an issue with shorting out, e.g., with silver paste, but I haven't been bold enough yet to check out the claim.
If the end user smeared a trail of it between the hot and ground of a male or female connection, it would likely cause a short, just like any other conductor or conductive paste would do.
At the macroscopic level it's not very conductive. But on the microscopic level it is conductive. This surprised me a bit when I discovered this. If you put probes into the liquid, barely not touching, they register tens of megohms. So I tested in a variety of situations. It certainly doesn't short out line level signals if you put a trail between the hot and ground. I've also tried splashing it around the base of tubes and tube sockets and this does not cause any issues. I wouldn't recommend allowing it to short out mains connections, in fact the idea is to use it very sparingly and not get it anywhere it shouldn't be.
But it is quite unlike silver or other conductive pastes or liquids..
When I saw the post, I Googled Graphene, because I am just interested in its unusual properties, and I thought I remembered there was something odd about its conductivity. The Wikipedia page is a little dense unless you're a physical chemist. I am a biologist with a basic science background, but I need to read it again and think about it. It seems there are two physical states of graphene, in one of which it is even more conductive than silver. In the other state, not so conductive. What triggers conversion between one state and another is where my ignorance lies. I got the impression that it only depends on the physical orientation of the lattice, which in a fluid medium such as a paste might be hard to control. You seem to have conducted two experiments where it was not conductive. Did you do anything to prove to yourself that it nevertheless enhances conductivity when used deliberately as a contact enhancer? Meantime, I have measured the resistance of the Walker Audio silver paste, and it seems to me if you just stick two ohmmeter probes in the paste, it did not conduct super well.
Initially I was investigating this as a means of reducing the resistance of the carbon fiber to copper connections in my interconnects, and I did find a measurable reduction in this application. Also I found improvements in sound quality.
So I wondered what the effect would be on regular metal-metal contacts on interconnects. So I tried on some line level interconnects, DAC/Pre to power amp. I found that the sonic effect was very easily noticable, in particular a reduction of 'glare', increase in tranparency and naturalness, etc. I proceeded to treat every metal-metal contact I could find - inside my power plugs, speaker cables, fuses, and so on, and found that it was a very positive thing, like I'd gotten a better amp or DAC.
Since then I've developed this further, trying various types of graphene and other ingredients, such that I'm almost ready to release. We sent out a few samples but now waiting for 5ml and 10ml glass bottles to be delivered. I hope to make 2ml sample sizes available very soon, in the next few days (we've just moved house and need to find all the different parts, etc).
....does the material "stay put" where it is applied? Or is there any risk of migration?
Sounds like a great product.
MG Chemicals #847 carbon conductive paste is said by the manufacturer to be non bleeding and non migrating. I like it's sound in the signal path better than Circuit Works silver conductive grease. I find it a more "natural" sound. Maybe not audiophiled up enough for some. Very worth trying, IMHO. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
It has similar sort of thickness as ProGold contact cleaner/enhancer, so like a thickish oil. The idea is to use a very small amount on a contact, (if there's too much you can absorb with tissue.)
It seems that in order to act as a superconductor, graphene must be in its 2-dimensional form, a one atom thick layer. I am trying to visualize how that works in the context of a paste you can apply to the surface of an electrical contact junction.
Graphene *is* an allotrope of carbon that is one atom thick. That's simply what defines it. You don't get other forms of graphene. You do get different sizes of graphene particles,etc, but they are all one atom thick.
Also it's not a superconductor, it's just a very good conductor, better than silver and copper.
I should not have used the term "superconductor", which has a specific meaning. I meant "super" as a conductor.
The chemistry is very complex, as I mentioned and you probably know better than I, but it seems to me that the conductivity of "graphene" is not always the same in all of its potential commercial forms (graphene flakes, graphene oxide, CVD graphene, for examples). That's what I was referring to. In certain complexes that might impeded the degrees of freedom of the pi electrons, doesn't the conductivity suffer, at least a little bit?
So if one uses the "right" amount of MSA, there is no migration?
...if that's what you mean. %^D
Sorry. I should have resisted. I'll go quietly now.
I find that it has a tendency to migrate to my fingers - but it washes off. But otherwise, how can I explain? It doesn't seek out tiny crevices like say WD40 does, but put a drop on a stranded wire, it will find it's way into the strands after a while. One idea of the oil-like base is to allow the graphene to move about in a limited manner to find the places it can work. So it depends on whay you mean by migration.
Yes we do plan to stay in New Zealand. We've just moved from 'south of Auckland' to New Plymouth and plan to stay put. We are a couple of inches off the right side of the picture.
Lastly, I've just made the 2ml sample size tubes available on our website. The larger sizes will come soon when the larger bottles arrive.
Just a quick note to say that the 5ml and 10ml bottles have arrived now (and I'm busy filling them up).
....is a bit more viscous than other oils, and hence will not migrate as rapidly. That's what I was wanting to know. With careful application, and placing it "just so", the MSA graphene should largely stay put.
My long experience is with Stabilant 22....one only needs a small amount to spread (with the tiny applicator brushes) and cover a given contact area. It's viscosity allows it to "stay put" with a careful and modest application. If your MSA Graphene does much in the same way, that's a very good thing. I look forward to trying it in the near future.
Thanks for the back-and-forth. I've heard nothing but good about your products here on this forum. Carry on, good Sir.
Viscosity - Correct; I've found that connections I left for a month or so, when you pull the plug it looks pretty much like it did when you put it in. Also, I don't think it will dry up, at least not quickly, as the base is not very volatile.
Regarding what's going on at a microscopic level : One of the main reasons I think this works so well is due to the particle sizes.
Compare these figures:
Nano-silver : typical particle size ~100-500nanometers , surface area per gram ~1 square meter per gram
Graphene (of the types used in GCE) : particle size ~5-20nanometers, surface area per gram 60-100 square meters per gram.
My best idea of what's going on is that these ultra-small particles are good at getting in between metal conductors, to 'fill in the gaps' left by the inevitable micro-level roughness of the conductors. But regardless of what is happening at the micro-level, the important thing is the subjective improvement that occurs.
Question-Do you think it would be beneficial to "rough up" the metal connectors more like with sandpaper prior to application? BTW,I have a 2ml sample coming to me from you so I just wanted your thoughts on this
One of the stated reasons for the ability of these contact enhancers to work is that they fill up micro gaps in the metal and create more surface contact. Roughing it up would likely be the opposite of what you would want to do. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
I wouldn't rough it up. Even if it was finely polished to our eyes, at a microscopic level it's pretty uneven.
I upgraded my outdoor Grounding Rod System with a larger gauge wire a few years ago and it made a very nice sonic improvement, mainly a lower noise floor...
I took in the Grounding Rod Clamp to Home Depot to find the larger AWG size .
I think it was a 8 AWG or a 6 AWG...
I used MSA Graphene Contact Enhancer on both ends of the outdoor Grounding Rod Wire...
Wonderful results seen in both Audio and Video...
I temporarily shorted the Wall-Wart Power Supply on my Nanotec-Systems Nespa Pro Optical Disc Finalizer... I got a little into the Female chassis connector when I applied it to the outer portion...
It sparked at the wall AC Outlet... I took it apart and cleaned off with Q-Tip and reconnected with no problem...
Life lesson 101... No harm done...
I'm planning on removing all the remaining silver paste on my connectors with alcohol before applying the Mad Scientist Audio Graphene based contact enhancer
I agree... I cleaned and polished all my bare wires in my Circuit Breaker Panel and Male AC Plug ends before applying the MSA Graphene Enhancer...
So, you did 2 things at once.
Now impossible to tell the effect of one or the other.
Too much is never enough
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