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Anyone gotten a sample of this yet? Not mentioned on their website, but with my recent order came a very small vial and brush of the stuff for testing. Given my experience in the past with many contact enhancers where early improvements seemed to turn into later degradation, I'm going slowly with the stuff, but it does seem easy to clean off. No clear consensus yet on its effects.John K.
Edits: 03/09/17 03/09/17Follow Ups:
I received my package from MS more then a week ago super fast shipping to usa! everything well thought out in there packaging very cool! plus they send a few of the small black discus.
Initial experiments with the contact enhancer revealed a very nice improvement of musical information(small) this was only done with power supply fuses then I started to experiment with small sample black discus, now IMO this makes even more of a difference then the contact enhancer actually they somehow work together, its hard to discern. The black discus must be some type fer-rite material they are not conductive when measured with a DVM but when placed or touching soldered joints made and audible hum on my preamp board!, I put these on the preamp board stuck to the ground trace this really made the amp very dynamic initially but effect goes away in several min's.
These are my Initial finding for now, more to come ltr.
Special Thanks to Bob for having this available to us that like to experiment.
Lawrence
More updates:
The contact enhancer is IMO very unpredictable and it goes through several stages of sound almost like a wire or capacitor does very strange but interesting non the less, How I apply is to use this stuff VERY VERY sparingly I mean a whisper translucent layer and like Bob was have said when done this way it will gooooo a very long way.
Now the best use IMO for the "black discuss" I have found is at or around the power cable and fuse holder, in other areas I do not like how it adds a kinda harmonic distortion if you will, almost like an SE amplifier with 5% mostly 2nd and IM distortion not that its harsh or anything at all but adds a coloration, you have to be careful where you put them, so much experiments need to be done in order to utilize them properly, you will know when its right when things come together a "dynamic coherency" and an aliveness to the sound.
Thanks Bob when funds come more available I will order more.
The discs are not actually ferrite but they do contain an iron-bearing mineral. Try leaving for a couple of days, they should stablize by then.
Hello John K, is there a discount for inmates ?
Lawrence
Email Sent, must be a busy guy
Lawrence
Last week, I received a tube of "graphene contact enhancer" from Mad Scientist Audio, and coated all the pins on all the tubes in my Decware Torii Mk III amp. The change with just "treating" the tube pins was far from subtle, creating a greater sense of ease and cohesiveness to the sound. All instruments are still distinct, but somehow seem to be part of a greater whole now, being better integrated. The soundstage also deepened a bit and became more holographic; for the first time I could actually tell that the clapping in the audience in a live Chuck Mangione album was coming from a location in front of and lower than the performers on the stage. Listening to a remastered hi-res download of "A Day in the Life", John Lennon's voice was floating around my living room in a very ethereal fashion; quite cool! I can't wait to find the time to treat all the rest of the connections in my system to see what further gains had be had. An amazing product, especially when you consider the amazingly low price of admission!
Chris
I thought it made the music dark sounding and took it all off. Not impressed.
But it was nice to at least try it.
Interesting comment from Ozzyboy. One thing I've learned is that systems are all different and rarely does something work on every system.
I suspect he may have put too much on - the key to using this is to apply sparingly, as it's desgined to operate at a microscopic level.
So far we'd had only positive feedback, so I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had the same experience as ozzy.
Oh you will hear what I think when mine arrives :)so to recap what is the best way to apply it very thin??
Look forward to playing around Bob
Lawrence
Edits: 05/01/17 05/01/17
It should arrive next week sometime.
I prefer using the foam applictor (we supply a few various types). Put a little on the foam and wipe gently onto the metal surfaces. If you put too much on, wipe off with a tissue and try again.
Further to my last message about applying sparingly - I did some exerimenting and I find you get best results like this:
1) Apply a little to one of the applicators, or a cotton bud (ideally do not use the brush in the bottle to apply).
2) Apply a very light coating to the contact(s)
3) Lightly dab with a tissue (like you'd use blotting paper to absorb ink) so that it appears to have almost none left.
(However you can confirm that there is still in fact graphene on the contact by now trying to polish - you'll see black on the tissue. To completely remove, clean with isoproyl alcohol or meths.)
Remember that this stuff acts at a microscopic level, measured in tens of nanometers, which you won't be able to see..
If you put too much on the results depend on the type of contact, and the surface finish. Some contacts don't mind being drowned, but some don't like it and give unpredictable results - if you hear strange effects like excess sibilance, muted bass, no highs, etc, then you have too much on there.
One more thing : GCE works at about 80% right after applying, but seems to immprove after 24-48 hours of being left alone. It's not really surprising in this case - the suspended graphene particles can take some time to flow into all the crevices.
Perhaps I did put too much of the Graphene on the contacts.
If I was going to try it again where would you suggest I try it first? Power cables, interconnects, speaker cables?
Thanks.
I am going to experiment first with fuses, then move onto other things, I had a similar experience like you ozzy, but it was with progold made it sound not right to me weird even.
What I am more worried about it bonding and not being able to be removed if I don't like it, or worse it gels (over time) becomes an insulator!
but bob assures that it should not gel time will tell.
Lawrence
Ozzy : I'd try interconnects first - they show the most effect in my experience.
I'd always said use sparingly, but after testing I found the ideal amount is even less than I thought. I will be updating the user sheet and emailing everyone who has bought it.
Lawrence : You can get it off with repeated cleaning until you see no more black coming off. Using some kind of alcohol makes this easier.
Basically a light wipe won't remove it, and this is in fact what you want to do for an ideal application. But a few vigourous wipes will remove it.
well so we don't wast it I think someone needs to come up with a precision nano applicator :)
Lawrence
Well one of the brushes it comes with is very tiny, small enough to get into 9-pin tube sockets.
There site says this stuff is coming soon. How did you get it?
Alan
I made several orders for BlackPod TC footers and was given a sample with my order... :)
I used MSA Graphene Contact Enhancer on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker connectors... Especially the audiodharma GROUND BREAKER power cable adaptor set...
Now all my cables sound even better after conditioning on the Cable Cooker...
The potential improvements never end. Thank you again for pushing the sonic envelope.
As a note, on the production version of the Ground Breaker, I use Stabilant 22 on the H,N,G lead ends inside the wall plug connector, inside the Deltron barrel connector (for the ground loop umbilical), and on the Deltron bananas themselves that are inserted into the barrel connectors.
Where did you apply the MSA Graphene on your Ground Breaker?
May I presume you applied the MSA onto the outer barrel of the RCA's? You could also apply it onto the contact area of the binding posts, where the end cap screws down onto the post.
Hi, Alan...
I started off taking apart the DIY Power Cord and used MSA Graphene on all the connections H-N-G)....Then the Power Supply very carefully on about 1/8" into the female IEC connector and at the opposite end only lightly on the outside of the chassis connector and making sure to keep it away from the center Female portion of the connector...
On the back of the Cable Cooker I did all the male connectors...
Also on RCA connectors I only applied to the male connector Hot...
Only about 1/8" on the center prong...And nothing on the Hot Female Chassis connector... Only lightly apply to the outer Ground of the Female connector...During production assembly, you may want to try it on a few of the internal Push=On connectors (the Push-Ons near the Off/On Switch)... That may be a real challenge...
Edits: 03/12/17
Actually, treating the white 6-pin board mount connector would be easy. Simply remove (by gently rocking back and forth) the red wire connector....that exposes the 6 pins on the white board connector. Reinstall the red wire connector and you're done.
Please clarify....when you say RCA connectors, are you speaking of the connectors on the cables you conditioned? The RCA's on the Cooker are all female chassis mounts, and the only male connector is the output XLR and the pair of BNC's.
Sorry... I was thinking of my RCA DIY Cable Cooker Adapters I made...
One more question, RW....how did you apply the MSA Graphene? Does the sample kit come with a tiny brush?
Sorry, I missed your post...
It does come with a very nice brush...
I found the disposable Lip Wands work better for me... I can apply it more evenly and do a series of projects quicker when I load up the Lip Wand with Graphene...
When I finish a project I put the Graphene Lip Wand in a Zip Lock Bag where it stays fresh and ready for the next project...
I've ordered a whole bunch of various types of brushes and applictors and will use the one(s) that are best. Maybe include a few types with each bottle as they are pretty cheap. But those foam (?) ones look good.
The description calls them "Flocked sponge head with plastic handle"...They are very tough and almost hard and even when I used a Needle Nose Pliers on them, I could not get to the inner layer...
The flocking does not shed or fall off...
So they are not a soft foam but they soak up and hold Graphene very well... :)
Edits: 03/16/17
.
at Lowering The Noise Floor and Increased Dynamics in both Sound Quality and Picture Quality...Amazing transparency...I first did all my male AC Plug prongs, then moved on to all the non audio video plugs around the house (Refrigerator, toaster oven, lamps, washer/dryer)...
Speaker Cables and RCA Interconnects were next...
Took apart all my DIY Power Cords and did all connections...
I also did my Circuit Breaker Panel...Did all my Audio and Video system breakers first and then moved on to the rest of the house...
Not recommended if you are not comfortable around live AC Circuits... I can isolate my Circuit Breaker Panel by killing outdoor disconnect to panel...Also USB and HDMI cables... Only did the outer shell on HDMI and USB Cables...
Did all my fuses in my AVR Receiver in my HT System...
I did NOT do my Ethernet Cables or Phone Cables because of the close contacts...
Also on RCA connectors I only applied to the male connector Hot...
Only about 1/8" on the center prong...And nothing on the Hot Female Chassis connector... Only lightly apply to the outer Ground of the Female connector...Used Nitrile Gloves to protect my hands...
Edits: 03/10/17 03/10/17
make a few jokes even though I am a confirmed tweaker and need nobodys proof to try something.
you said: """then moved on to all the non audio video plugs around the house (Refrigerator, toaster oven, lamps, washer/dryer)..""""
Refrigerator: So I'm guessing crisper lettuce, more detailed citrus notes leaner meat,
toaster oven: cruchier toast, melted cheese adheres better to its host
Lamps: clarity, brightness were the areas in which these "shined"
washer/dryer: whiter whites, less electrostatic discharge and EMI
Rim shot!
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Electric recliner alll the way back rim job - high frequency extension lots of air.
nt
The literature that came with the enhancer states that MS hasn't seen an issue with shorting out, e.g., with silver paste, but I haven't been bold enough yet to check out the claim.John K.
Edits: 03/10/17
If the end user smeared a trail of it between the hot and ground of a male or female connection, it would likely cause a short, just like any other conductor or conductive paste would do.
At the macroscopic level it's not very conductive. But on the microscopic level it is conductive. This surprised me a bit when I discovered this. If you put probes into the liquid, barely not touching, they register tens of megohms. So I tested in a variety of situations. It certainly doesn't short out line level signals if you put a trail between the hot and ground. I've also tried splashing it around the base of tubes and tube sockets and this does not cause any issues. I wouldn't recommend allowing it to short out mains connections, in fact the idea is to use it very sparingly and not get it anywhere it shouldn't be.
But it is quite unlike silver or other conductive pastes or liquids..
When I saw the post, I Googled Graphene, because I am just interested in its unusual properties, and I thought I remembered there was something odd about its conductivity. The Wikipedia page is a little dense unless you're a physical chemist. I am a biologist with a basic science background, but I need to read it again and think about it. It seems there are two physical states of graphene, in one of which it is even more conductive than silver. In the other state, not so conductive. What triggers conversion between one state and another is where my ignorance lies. I got the impression that it only depends on the physical orientation of the lattice, which in a fluid medium such as a paste might be hard to control. You seem to have conducted two experiments where it was not conductive. Did you do anything to prove to yourself that it nevertheless enhances conductivity when used deliberately as a contact enhancer? Meantime, I have measured the resistance of the Walker Audio silver paste, and it seems to me if you just stick two ohmmeter probes in the paste, it did not conduct super well.
Initially I was investigating this as a means of reducing the resistance of the carbon fiber to copper connections in my interconnects, and I did find a measurable reduction in this application. Also I found improvements in sound quality.
So I wondered what the effect would be on regular metal-metal contacts on interconnects. So I tried on some line level interconnects, DAC/Pre to power amp. I found that the sonic effect was very easily noticable, in particular a reduction of 'glare', increase in tranparency and naturalness, etc. I proceeded to treat every metal-metal contact I could find - inside my power plugs, speaker cables, fuses, and so on, and found that it was a very positive thing, like I'd gotten a better amp or DAC.
Since then I've developed this further, trying various types of graphene and other ingredients, such that I'm almost ready to release. We sent out a few samples but now waiting for 5ml and 10ml glass bottles to be delivered. I hope to make 2ml sample sizes available very soon, in the next few days (we've just moved house and need to find all the different parts, etc).
....does the material "stay put" where it is applied? Or is there any risk of migration?
Sounds like a great product.
MG Chemicals #847 carbon conductive paste is said by the manufacturer to be non bleeding and non migrating. I like it's sound in the signal path better than Circuit Works silver conductive grease. I find it a more "natural" sound. Maybe not audiophiled up enough for some. Very worth trying, IMHO. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
Edits: 03/15/17
It has similar sort of thickness as ProGold contact cleaner/enhancer, so like a thickish oil. The idea is to use a very small amount on a contact, (if there's too much you can absorb with tissue.)
It seems that in order to act as a superconductor, graphene must be in its 2-dimensional form, a one atom thick layer. I am trying to visualize how that works in the context of a paste you can apply to the surface of an electrical contact junction.
Graphene *is* an allotrope of carbon that is one atom thick. That's simply what defines it. You don't get other forms of graphene. You do get different sizes of graphene particles,etc, but they are all one atom thick.
Also it's not a superconductor, it's just a very good conductor, better than silver and copper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene
I should not have used the term "superconductor", which has a specific meaning. I meant "super" as a conductor.
The chemistry is very complex, as I mentioned and you probably know better than I, but it seems to me that the conductivity of "graphene" is not always the same in all of its potential commercial forms (graphene flakes, graphene oxide, CVD graphene, for examples). That's what I was referring to. In certain complexes that might impeded the degrees of freedom of the pi electrons, doesn't the conductivity suffer, at least a little bit?
So if one uses the "right" amount of MSA, there is no migration?
...if that's what you mean. %^D
Sorry. I should have resisted. I'll go quietly now.
axolotl
I find that it has a tendency to migrate to my fingers - but it washes off. But otherwise, how can I explain? It doesn't seek out tiny crevices like say WD40 does, but put a drop on a stranded wire, it will find it's way into the strands after a while. One idea of the oil-like base is to allow the graphene to move about in a limited manner to find the places it can work. So it depends on whay you mean by migration.Yes we do plan to stay in New Zealand. We've just moved from 'south of Auckland' to New Plymouth and plan to stay put. We are a couple of inches off the right side of the picture.
Lastly, I've just made the 2ml sample size tubes available on our website. The larger sizes will come soon when the larger bottles arrive.
Edits: 03/13/17
Just a quick note to say that the 5ml and 10ml bottles have arrived now (and I'm busy filling them up).
....is a bit more viscous than other oils, and hence will not migrate as rapidly. That's what I was wanting to know. With careful application, and placing it "just so", the MSA graphene should largely stay put.
My long experience is with Stabilant 22....one only needs a small amount to spread (with the tiny applicator brushes) and cover a given contact area. It's viscosity allows it to "stay put" with a careful and modest application. If your MSA Graphene does much in the same way, that's a very good thing. I look forward to trying it in the near future.
Thanks for the back-and-forth. I've heard nothing but good about your products here on this forum. Carry on, good Sir.
Viscosity - Correct; I've found that connections I left for a month or so, when you pull the plug it looks pretty much like it did when you put it in. Also, I don't think it will dry up, at least not quickly, as the base is not very volatile.
Regarding what's going on at a microscopic level : One of the main reasons I think this works so well is due to the particle sizes.
Compare these figures:
Nano-silver : typical particle size ~100-500nanometers , surface area per gram ~1 square meter per gram
Graphene (of the types used in GCE) : particle size ~5-20nanometers, surface area per gram 60-100 square meters per gram.
My best idea of what's going on is that these ultra-small particles are good at getting in between metal conductors, to 'fill in the gaps' left by the inevitable micro-level roughness of the conductors. But regardless of what is happening at the micro-level, the important thing is the subjective improvement that occurs.
Question-Do you think it would be beneficial to "rough up" the metal connectors more like with sandpaper prior to application? BTW,I have a 2ml sample coming to me from you so I just wanted your thoughts on this
One of the stated reasons for the ability of these contact enhancers to work is that they fill up micro gaps in the metal and create more surface contact. Roughing it up would likely be the opposite of what you would want to do. T456
"The Borg is the ultimate user. They're unlike any threat your Federation has ever faced."
- Q, 2365
I wouldn't rough it up. Even if it was finely polished to our eyes, at a microscopic level it's pretty uneven.
.
I upgraded my outdoor Grounding Rod System with a larger gauge wire a few years ago and it made a very nice sonic improvement, mainly a lower noise floor...
I took in the Grounding Rod Clamp to Home Depot to find the larger AWG size .
I think it was a 8 AWG or a 6 AWG...
I used MSA Graphene Contact Enhancer on both ends of the outdoor Grounding Rod Wire...
Wonderful results seen in both Audio and Video...
Great idea.
I temporarily shorted the Wall-Wart Power Supply on my Nanotec-Systems Nespa Pro Optical Disc Finalizer... I got a little into the Female chassis connector when I applied it to the outer portion...
It sparked at the wall AC Outlet... I took it apart and cleaned off with Q-Tip and reconnected with no problem...
Life lesson 101... No harm done...
I'm planning on removing all the remaining silver paste on my connectors with alcohol before applying the Mad Scientist Audio Graphene based contact enhancer
I agree... I cleaned and polished all my bare wires in my Circuit Breaker Panel and Male AC Plug ends before applying the MSA Graphene Enhancer...
So, you did 2 things at once.
Now impossible to tell the effect of one or the other.
Too much is never enough
Ba-da-bing!
:)
I just ordered a 2ml sample size version direct from MS.I have high hopes for this stuff both iin ease of application and performance.Alan Maher uses Graphene in all of his power filter designs and they sound great.Graphene has a long break in though-200 hours
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