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In Reply to: RE: 40mm x 10mm Carbon Fiber Discs posted by bcowen on February 18, 2017 at 15:35:59
Just curious; carbon fibre is just a thin layer , held together by a bonding agent .
Cheap carbon products consist of up to 90% of glue, and are for appearance only .
There's little to no vibration dissipation with those things .
Are those discs optimized for Audio use, with a carefully designed weave pattern, or just the usual Chines pile of glue with some Carbon leftovers thrown in ?
I'm certainly no expert on carbon fiber. These discs are 3/8" thick, and as best I can see there's about 10 layers making up that thickness. Are they optimized for audio use? Probably not, or they would likely be 10 times the price.
Image: BDR LM Disc Carbon Fiber Isolation Pad
The design of the 40mm x 10mm Carbon Fiber Disc appears to be identical to the BDR LM Disc Carbon Fiber Isolation Pad priced at $29 each via MusicDirect. However, the size of the BDR product is a smaller 38.1mm x 8.7mm (1.5" x 0.34") disc, whereas the somewhat larger generic 40mm x 10mm Carbon Fiber Disc is priced at $3.50 each when purchased as a quantity of 8 via eBay. If the the sonic benefit of the BDR product is trustworthy, I can only report that I find the 40mm x 10mm Carbon Fiber Disc to be an effective vibration control device, which requires very little cash outlay including the anti-skid, mild decoupling pads that make it an effective and practical vibration control device, IME.
As for the use of "glue", a resin material is what makes the use of carbon fiber for resonance control purposes possible. Resin impregnation is the "composite" aspect of a carbon fiber composite material. Otherwise, carbon fiber is useless without the use of resin within the structure of the design, including the vital aspect of rigidity.
For those with stand-mount monitors, I highly recommend that folks try a set of the 40mm x 10mm Carbon Fiber Discs with a 40mm Herbie's Audio Lab Thin grungebuster Dot (black version, with optional adhesive backing) adhered to both the top and the bottom of the disc. It's the best configuration I've tried as an interface between the bottom of a loudspeaker, and the top of a speaker stand, IME.
Thanks for the report, in the end all that matters are results .
I'm no expert in carbon either, but I'd like to point out that the to me, the Chinese offerings and the BRD product look nothing alike .
It's hard to judge from the available images , but the BRD pads look like layered carbon, while the other products look like they were cut from a pultruded carbon rod, and then covered on one side with a layer of carbon fiber .
That would basically be a graphite puck made to look fancy .
Now for audio gear, that might work as well or even better than a proper carbon fiber disk, it just isn't one .
As for resin, obviously it needs to be used with carbon fiber; the quality and quantity of the resin can vary a lot with carbon fiber products though .
Not to mention the quality of the carbon fiber itsself, weave patterns and fiber orientation .
Sorry for the nitpicking ;) .
I'm no expert in carbon either, but I'd like to point out that the to me, the Chinese offerings and the BRD product look nothing alike.
As long as we're nitpicking :), I don't know what pictures you're looking at, but the Music Direct picture of the BDR disc that Duster posted and the Chinese disc I have in my hands look exactly alike down to the layering of the carbon fiber. That's why I posted earlier that they appeared identical. Granted my iPhone can't clearly capture the detail of a professional product photo, but perhaps you could post the photos that you're comparing?
BDR disc photo from Music Direct:
Chinese disc photo from my iPhone:
From the Music Direct picture, the BDR discs look so perfectly identical to the Ebay/AliExpress sourced ones it certainly makes me wonder if they're all coming from the same manufacturer.
I wouldn't doubt it. There are plenty of examples of seemingly knock-off Chinese manufactured products that are actually the same as what a higher-priced North American or European brand offers, especially their entry-level product lines that are sourced from Chinese manufacturers. I could list many audiophile products that are sourced from Chinese manufacturers based on Japanese and Western products that are re-branded as North American or European products. I wish this issue were not the case, but the reality of such a thing cannot be denied. From an end-user POV, the global economy is so convoluted that I feel little guilt about buying anything that offers the same quality at a lower price point, unless there is a level of blatant counterfeit fakery of poor quality involved in the matter, which needs to be recognized.
I agree, and there is nothing wrong with Chinese made products - they are usually as good or bad as the buyer / western reseller demands .
Cheap materials, poor quality control, for the lowest possible price, you can get that .
Decent quality, you can get that too, but you have to pay for it .
This stuff is supposedly solid - sold by square inch. Think ya can customize orders, so round with a dimple may be a possibility.
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