 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
I took Jon`s advice on making speakers cables out of Belden 89292 wire I found at Elect Salvage Store. Took of shield, twisted them in as tight config as I could and put small nylon pull ties every 6 inches. Twisted config held, hooked them up and WOW. One of the most neutral warm detailed wires I`ve ever tried. Soundstage became much deeper wider and higher. Female voices which I listen to alot became extremely warmer. At first I thought I lost deeper frequencies, however after listening for awhile I realized they were still there and much cleaner and detailed. I just could go on and on about this cable but this is enough. Thanks again Jon.
Anyone compared the Risch recipes for the 89292 vs. the 89259? I'm currently (finally!) constructing the 89259 version and am curious if this is still the preferred wire/construction or if the 89292 is now the "better" or most preferred version.Thanks,
Bob
It has been awhile since I listened to the 89259 vs. the 89292, and when I did it originally, the 89259 sounded cleaner and more detailed, with no loss of bass. The total gauge is very similar, 14 gauge for a simple twisted pair, and 13 1/2 gauge for the cross-connected 89259.The comments I get from people always seem very pleasantly surprised at how well the 89259 performs, but most do not go for the 89292, as it is not on the recommended list.
The very reason I even put it in the note is twofold:
one, you may find a spool a tthe local surplus store, yup!
two, some might prefer the "all solid" construction, vs. the stranded shield and center wires of the 89259. Frankly, I think Thorsten's take on the solid vs. stranded is rather extreme, but to each his own.Jon Risch
I tend to be in Thorsten`s ball park on stranded vs single solid core. The single wire, in my different experiments has a tendency to give a cleaner presentation of the music, less overall distortion. I believe single soild core needs to be used in power cord also, practically does away with any distortion that remains. I don`t believe threaded copper and clean sound can be used in the same sentence. I know this sounds radical, but a person should keep their mind unless they try it.
Then you might want to try some 89292 with some 82248, an 18 gauge solid core center wire in foamed teflon, this will tend to distribute resonances due to the different wire gauge, and the total equivalent gauge will now be 12 1/2 gauge. If you crossconnect the 18 gauge with the 14 gauge and then twist it, it will reduce the inductance to approx. one third that of the single twisted pair. However, the cross-connection must be done in a counterintuitive manner, let me describe:Looking at a clock dial, electrical cross-connection involves placing the same polarity wires across from one another. For instance, plus at 12 oclock, negative at 3 oclock, plus at 6 oclock, and negative at 9 oclock. In other words, for equal sized wires, you cross-connect the two opposite wires to the same polariy, in an electrical configuaration also known as star-quad wiring.
For these unequal sized wires, your first tendency would be to interleave the sizes, but this has the two 18 gauge wires on one polarity, and the two 14 gauge wires on the other, not a balanced or desirable situation, as the DCR is increased. You want the 14 and 18 gauge in parallel for each polarity. In order to do so, looking at the clock diagram, place the 14 gauge at 12 oclock, and again at 3 oclock, the 18 gauge at 6 and 9 oclock. Then you conncet 12 and 6 oclock together to form one polarity, and 3 and 9 oclock together for the other. This does make the cable array look lopsided, but it will be more electrically balanced, and the total DCR will at it's lowest.
Once again, the big benefit of doing this is to lower inductance to about a third of what it is with a simple twisted pair of 14 gauge wires. I can imagine that this might reduce some of that warmth that some have spoken of, and it should tighten and strengthen the deep bass a little more
Any way, another option for those enamored of solid wires.
BTW, just as with the 89292, the 82248 must have it's jacket, foil and braid removed in order to use just the foamed teflon core and center wires.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tech America 1-800-877-0072Tech America will sell the cables they carry by the foot. If you
want to try some of the twisted pair interconnect, they carry several of Belden's teflon insulated cables, and some have a bare copper center wire.
NOTE: THESE CABLES ARE FOR USE OF THE CENTER WIRE
AND INSULATION ONLY! THEY ARE NOT RECOMMENDED
FOR USE WITH THE INCLUDED BRAID, OR FOIL AND BRAID
SHIELD! In an audio coaxial cable, the shield DOES carry the
return current, and is a factor in the quality of materials issue.part#910-1573, 86 cents a foot. (Is Belden 82248)
18 gauge solid bare copper in foamed teflon, insulation dia. .170"
This is strictly a guess, but i would think that Jon's 89259 design would present an overall higher capacitive load than your simple twisted pair design. Most newer amps wouldn't have a problem with this though, so either design should work well. What about it Jon ? Sean
>
Your comments are close to what I expected except for those of the warmth. The cables that i have tried that were of similar construction may have sounded slightly thin. Other than that, it is AMAZING at how much better twisted pair solid copper sounds when compared to standard heavy gauge stranded, isn't it ? The level of detail, smoothness and improvements to the soundstage are INSTANTLY noticeable. Glad your enjoying your "bargain" and thanks for letting us know the results. Sean
>
Some friends of mine have let me borrow various big name labels of high end wire makers however these Belden`s have all of them beat on total warmth and attracting listener to the music. With these I really want to stay and listen longer. Sean I paid .75 a ft for this belden wire, I wonder if I should go back and buy the rest of spool maybe make cables for my friends. This is a salvage store. Your right the sound is somewhat thinner, however having said that, its actually more lifelike not fat sounding.
It's up to you, Bob. I OFTEN pick up gear that is a good deal, even though I have no current use for it !!! It's just too hard to pass up a bargain !!! I know that sooner or later, one of my local buddies or "net friends" will be looking for something similar and I can pass on the good deal. Whether or not your friends will be receptive to your "weird contraption" speaker wire is another story though. Once they listen to it, they just might change their minds. : )I would say that the price you paid is pretty good, especially since your not using the jacket for anything and aren't worried about it's cosmetics. Brand new wire of the same type would be WAY more money due to the teflon insulator. Even if you don't use it all, Quest seems interested in a quantity of it.
As to the thinning of the sound, you may be able to slightly re-orient your speakers and pick up a little more bottom end if carefully done. Take your time, as this is very tricky and can make WORLDS of difference in the presentation of your soundstage and imaging. Even with the slight thinning, the sound is far more natural and smoother overall. Once they hear the difference, I think that most people would be willing to live with the trade-off.
My brother and I are working on some speakers for a friend of mine right now. We are bi-wiring them and completely isolating the crossover. We'll be using solid twisted pairs for the mids and tweeters and heavy stranded for the woofer. When the two mains are done and completely dialed in, we'll be building two subs for him. Once the subs are put into the system, we'll probably switch to solid twisted on the main woofers. This should improve the transient response and lower midrange response. We'll use heavy stranded for the subs, as they will only be reproducing the lowest octave or so.
I would use the solid twisted wire on the main woofers initially, but this guy's room is big and bright sounding. The stranded wire on the woofer will help balance the sound out slightly better until the subs can be put into the system.
Glad your happy with your "DIY" project. It's always nice to reap the rewards of the effort you've put forth. Sean
>
I would like to get some off of you so that I can make a pair of speaker cables .. Let me know if you are seriously considering purchasing the rest of the spool. I'll pay shipment for the amount I need. hoshum@hotmail.comThanks!
regards,
Quest
.
.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
