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In Reply to: Lucy! You ga some 'splainin' to do... posted by Robert on May 08, 1999 at 15:26:12:
Not to sound edgey, but it is important to understand that the original post was sent as an email, so it is not meant to be conclusive. Ok, now on to the response...>Your post is pregnant with unanswered questions, some of them asked by >Jon Risch-- and some not, such as whether the soldering of the cables >were done by different people or the same person, what's his/her/their >level of soldering experience? Also...
The soldering was all done by the same person, using RS lead-free silver solder (4% Ag, 96% Pb). It was performed using a Weller soldering iron, on a wooden work bench, at 77 degrees Farenheit, with approximately 44% cloud cover.
>You write that you post this info "at the request of *some* of those >responsible for their DIY designs," I am curious how many designerS >requested this?
A total of 3, including 2 who don't frequent this particular board. The other was Thorsten.
>I'd like to know the name of the title and track of the CD you used? We >all want to try it ourselves, ya know!
Ani DiFranco, "Dilate", Track 1
>You refer to Jon Risch's cable as his "ultimate IC" design, but I get the >impression that you didn't specifically use 89248 as he strongly >recommends in his DIY note, how come?
I did use the 89248. I admit that I attempted to improve on it by using the Belden 1506A with a smaller conductor, but the second version offered no improvement. The Risch IC is refered to as his "ultimate IC" because that seemed to be the best design he presented. I did take his advice and use split FEP cores to round out the TP, but I sheathed it in TFE h/s instead of a shield (much improved without the shield, btw).
>On the other hand, the sound of your DIY 89259/solid FEP IC is not too >different than what I encountered when I *first* plugged in my >89259/89248 ICs, which leads me to ask what kind of break-in times were >used for these cables?
Each cable was broken in with a wide variety of music signals for 96 hours before testing...luckily I was out of town and able to burn them all in simultaneously...(I guess a point could be made about the varying quality of the CD players connected to each cable, what that would be exactly, I am not sure)
>I felt the soundstage from my Rat Shack ICs was much larger than the >89259/89248 ICs I replaced them with. That is, until the Risch design ICs >were broken-in after several days. It should also be noted Jon Risch has >stated that he didn't notice any break-in effects in his system, but that >others might.
I have always noticed a difference in my IC's, presumably to allow the dielectric to settle (if it's not apparent that I am not an 'electricity flows like water in a pipe' person by now, it should be..)
>If you can, check out the thread running on the SoundStage cables board >about the difficulties of testing 2 cables (much less 6).
Well acquainted with it, actually. To say that it was unscientific would be an understatement (our test, that is). For example, we made no effort to account for listener fatigue, temperature, etc.
>I'm sure you had a lot of fun doin' this test and I'm glad you shared the >results. If we can find out where you got the sat cable here in the US
>(you're in Florida, right?) we could try Thorsten's design as well.I did not use Thorsten's cable, I actually used the core of the 1506A which should technically be a little superior given that it is a FEP dielectric. I have yet to find a place in the US that sells the copper foil coax he describes (although I have found a manufacturer of air dielectric, solid copper shield coax, but they only sell 5000+ft runs, and have no distributor).
Rob,Thank you for clearing up that the original post was not meant to be conclusive. It came off that way to me at least, but it's very easy to misread the intent of some posts here on the net.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I do have one minor grumble...
Even after reading your response, I feel it's a little unfair to refer to Jon Ricsh's 89259/89248 design as his "Ultimate" as you and Thorsten call it. Though I don't know him, I think it's a safe bet to say he doesn't feel this is his ultimate IC design and if he *does* feel that way then it's up to him to slap a moniker on it (as you know, he's never given a name to any of his DIY projects). In a way, your referring to it as "Ultimate" appears a little self-serving; it's a lot more impressive to have a cable or cables "best" one named the "Ultimate," eh? For me, the term "Ultimate" in context of the 89259 cables conjurs up the same connotations as the phrase "Golden Ears." ("Hey, Golden Ears, how are your "Ultimate" ICs hangin'?) If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.Something I have a MUCH bigger problem with...
I have to admit that I find it much more disturbing that these solders were made under such a high percentage of cloud cover, this could account for most (if not all) of your findings. (It's also interesting that you make NO mention of what your lunch that day consisted of-- a-HA!!)
Thanks again,
Robert
Hi all,Just checked Jon's web-site. Indeed, he never used the term "Ultimate"....
I must however note that I have noted repeatedly that others referred to this IC by this "title".... Maybe we can find a better name?
None necessary, no offense taken.My DIY recipes and designs are aimed at using readily available commercial cables and wires to make your own homemade audio cables. Some people might argue about 89259 being readily available,m but it is obtainable, even if there is a bit of a wait when ordering at a reasonable price. For those in a hurry, Newark sells it for a premium, but keeps it in stock (more or less).
What would be my ultimate? I sent a recipe to Steve Lampen once, but never heard back. He tends to believe that the range of current Belden offerings are enough for audio purposes.
For a coax, I would love to see the basic 89259 done in a very pure OFHC large crystal copper, perhaps using the OCC copper of Harmonic Tech, with individually insulated strands of varying gauges, and an air injected/air channel TFE for the insulator.
For a twisted pair, I would like to see a similar core twisted precisely around another such core, and bonded together (or extruded over the pair) so that mechanically there would no looseness to the pair of wires. A large amount of highly foamed FEP or TFE spacer, and then a foil/braid shield.
Both would have pure TFE jackets of course, lending the "super-89259" towards use as a cross-connected speaker cable.
Pure silver versions would also be nice to hear and experiment with, but may not be necessary if the copper was good enough.
The ultimate? Maybe, but I have some other ideas that might bear some exotic fruit too. Just don't have the $50,000 laying around to have the cable custom made on a whim. Fancy that....
Jon Risch
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