 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
24.17.157.133
In Reply to: Do the Hubbells have thicker steel spines? posted by Al Sekela on January 22, 2006 at 16:00:06:
The HBL8200 is the 15 amp version of the HBL8300 (20 amp) and are nickel plated brass with a nickel plated brass backstrap. To confuse the matter; the HBL8200H and HBL8300H are unplated brass and have an unplated brass backstrap, and a different body. The unplated brass versions have better focus and offer a more natural presentation than the nickel plated versions in most folk's opinion (and I concur).
Follow Ups:
The unplated brass versions have better focus and offer a more natural presentation than the nickel plated versions in most folk's opinion (and I concur).Perhaps when they're 'stock'. :--)
Does this imply that you consider a cryo'd and cooked nickel plated Hubbell to sound better than a cryo'd and cooked unplated Hubbell?...
This now comes down to food-and-wine tasting, Duster....personal preference.But I would, based on experience, state that a cryo'd and Cooked Hubbell *does* sound better (offer more musical information, a lower noise floor, etc. etc.) than an untreated unit....although there are those that would prefer the untreated unit (I actually suffered through this experience with a local dealer). This again is personal preference.
And caveat emptor....not all cryo treatment is the same, nor are the sonic attributes of products cryo'd at different facilities. Similar, but not the same, due to the varying temperatures and soak times between the varied treatment.
Alan, my query was not about cryo'd and cooked vs. untreated, it's about a cryo'd and cooked *nickel plated* Hubbell 8200/8300 vs. a cryo'd and cooked *unplated* Hubbell 8200H/8300H. Your original response seemed to imply that a cryo'd and cooked nickel plated Hubbell would present with equal (or perhaps better) focus and naturalness as it's unplated counterpart.By now you should understand my POV about cryo and burn-in, and to further clarify the issue; my concern is *also* not about plating since you also know my POV about that (Oyaide, Furutech, Wattgate, etc), it's the *nickel* plate that is of issue. I don't believe nickel's magnetic property (and likely it's sonic signature, regardless of magnetism) is able to deliver the goods, even if treated with a magic wand ;-)
Duster: have you ever have the chance to compare two connectors that are identical except for nickle plate? I ask as I really wonder about the horrors of nickle. Is the problem the nickle or is the problem oxide between the nickle and the metal substrate? I have used and still use the basic Neutrik rca connector (modified) which is a brass base metal with a thick nickle plate and they don't sound bad. What is it about nickle that is supposed to be so bad? Perhaps we can devise some easy to excicute test to make some comparrisons? I know that Oyaide for example do not like nickle and i respect thier work but I have heard other respectable manufacturers make such statements and upon investigating I have not been able to agree. I am not calling them for thier choice I just want to know if I would make the same choice. Your thoughts would be welcome. I look forward to a positive discussion. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
Hi Moray,The Hubbell outlets I mentioned in the forum are a perfect example of nominally identical connectors (in this case AC outlets), one being nickel plated and the other unplated. The Hubbell HBL8300 and HBL8300H are nearly identical except that the HBL8300 is nickel plated, and the HBL8300H has a somewhat smaller body. Both outlets have the same brass fittings. I've compared the two, and the unplated HBL8300H is a superior sounding outlet, hands down.
Nickel:
Rather than it being damaging; nickel is used to *protect* the base metal; and often used as a protective metal substrate prior to gold plating. Nickel forms an excellent barrier that avoids leeching. The problem with nickel is that it's a ferromagnetic material (it can be magnetized). Ferromagnetic materials include iron, nickel, cobalt, and gadolinium. These ferromagnetic metals tend to stay magnetized even after the external magnetic field is removed.
Many Audio Grade AC connectors go so far as to use non-magnetic stainless steel screws to fasten the connector body. If these small screws placed outside of the conductive path make a difference, one can imagine how a magnetized plating would affect AC delivery. Also, my impression is that nickel "itself" does not have a good sonic signature for use as a plating, regardless of it's ferromagnetism. I have no proof of this opinion, however.
While gold, silver, rhodium, palladium, and even copper when used as platings over bronze or brass have sonic signatures that are appreciated by some folks more than by others, the general opinion of AC outlet and connector "connoisseurs" is that nickel degrades the sound.
The only "Audio Grade" (in name only, IMHO) AC outlet that's nickel plated is PS Audio's Power Port. It's a Hubbell HBL8300 with more attention payed to the plating process. It sounds the same as the nickel plated Hubbell HBL8300, IME. My PS Audio UPC-200 power line conditioner's stock outlets were PS Audio's Power Ports. When I replaced the nickel plated outlets with Furutech FP-15A(Cu) AC outlets (copper plated phosphor bronze) the presentation sounded much more natural and transparent. Simply more organic and "musical" than the nickel plated Power Ports which sounded congested and offered poor focus in comparison.
It is also well accepted that audio connectors such as rca's and spade's with a direct gold or direct silver plating provide higher sound quality vs. those that are first plated with a nickel substrate.
Best Regards, Duster
> > " The problem with nickel is that it's a ferromagnetic material (it can be magnetized). Ferromagnetic materials include iron, nickel, cobalt, and gadolinium. These ferromagnetic metals tend to stay magnetized even after the external magnetic field is removed." < <
> > > > > > > > >Duster that might explain why when I placed a large magnet on the back of a HBL8300 there was a slight attraction.
And as others have noted in other posts the Leviton hosp grade recept contacts are not plated but, the supporting yoke, strap, is made of steel. The magnet sticks like glue.
I presently am using the Leviton outlets and was going to change them out to the HBL8300, but after your comments I am going to try the 8300H outlets.
Jim
try placing ceramic magnets on the steel spines of your Leviton devices.
Al suggested that I try this. Now I have ceramic magnets on the backs of ALL my outlets (except the wall one), on the outside of any ferrous metal AC strip boxes, etc. AND it works like a charm to tame some nasties that I didn't even know I had before removing them.DANGER WARNING!!! This can be a hazard too, so you have to be damned careful where you put any conducting materials or how you alter any outlets or AC devices. DANGER WARNING!!!
Where would one buy ceramic magnets ( hardware stose or hobby shop)? Do they have a different appearance than the reg. ones. Thanks. Think I'll be selling my Power Ports have a few Furatech cu on the way already.
There's no need to mod your new Furutech Cu AC outlets. All Furutech's AC products pay close attention to being non-magnetic.BTW, l much liked replacement of Power Ports with Furutech Cu's :-)
nt
nt
nt
Have just noticed that Leviton have two male wall plugs in thier industrial series that have the same plug pin assemblies except that one is nickle plated and the other is not. When I get the chance I will get one of each and build up two identical power cords and have a listen to see exactly what the nickle adds or does not add. Perhaps you would like to replicate this experiment and we can then compare notes when we are finished. Regards Moray James.
moray james
The Hubbell HBL8300 vs. HBL8300H is an excellent direct comparison test. However, I've also experienced nickel plated AC connectors placed on various power cords and can report the same opinion about nickel plating. Bob Crump went so far as to remove the nickel plating from his much loved P&S AC plug's neutral blade. Hubbell also makes an AC plug with a nickel plated neutral blade, and I much prefer the unplated Hubbell Valise AC plug over it. Nickel's effect/sonic signature is simply less coherent and open (in my opinion) as compared to "non-nickel plated types".
....and my listening results differed from yours. Hubbell's plating process is different, and some might say superior to P & S's or other manufacturers. Bob Crump's disdain for "nickel" didn't distinguish between one manufacturer and another. "They were all bad". But Bob always had strong and unilateral opinions.Then again, my listening experiences were with units that had *double-cryogenic* treatment, plus 4+ days conditioning on the Cooker. These treatments transformed something rather ordinary (and to some ears, suspect) into a good performer. Many, many customers enjoyed the results.
I wholly respect your opinion on these matters....but the wholesale statements such as "better" are again, food and wine tasting....the realm of personal preference. I always preferred the HBL5362 for its more laid-back perspective and deep/wide soundstage. Others definitely enjoyed the more upfront 'detail' and 'immediacy' of the HBL8300. Go figure.
...nickel is ferromagnetic, no matter what treatment is applied...I will bow to your observations, though :-)
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Pumpernickel....the 'darker' nickel.Your pumpernickel probably has a Power Wrap around it!
:)
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
