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In Reply to: Re: Anyone heard of built North Creeek speaker kits? posted by Branwell on May 01, 2000 at 06:47:54:
Thanks for the reply.I'm amazed that your local LOWES was able to cut the panels with enough accuracy that your final product came out square. Good job on their part. And good job on your part for being able to get LOWES to do the job right. I may go down and talk to my local LOWES and see what I can learn. If not, I have a table saw, but it would be easier to have LOWES cut the stuff.
I was thinking of doing the Unlimited Rhythm or perhaps the Revelator Rhythm. I'm not a tweaker when it comes to crossovers. So I think I'll have to be satisfied with the design from North Creek.
Can you comment on the sound of the Rhythm? Is the sound character similar to anything that is commercially available?
Hi John, Manx,First off, I like North Creek and I think George does a very good job.
The speakers stock are really nice and present well George’s design philosophies.
Saying that, now that I’ve had the Rhythm speakers for a while, there are several things George did that I don’t agree with.
I am not saying George is wrong and I am right.
In speaker design, within limits, there are no rights and wrongs. All speakers are a set of compromises.In my systems, the speakers have good dynamics and are timberely very nice.
Saying that, if I had to complain, I would say that they are a little light in the lower mid and the sound stage focus and depth is not as good as it could be.
There is also a hardening in the mid when played loud that I am trying to track down.
Please keep in mind that I am picking here.There are several things that I’m looking at.
One is the XO point and the other is the use of Cap “Bypassing”.
In my pre amp, one I built myself ( See bottlehead.com if you want to build a really nice tube preamp kit ), I have consistently found that using bypassing on the output coupling cap degrades the sound stage. In all cases, sticking with a single cap or a cap bundle of “same values” gives better results than “progressively lower” bypassing.
Saying that, I have found that “progressively lower” bypassing on large cap values, say over 50uf does make an improvement, but not on values under that.I want to try a single cap in the tweeter net and see if it improves focus and depth.
The next issue is one of the XO point and distortion.
The Rhythm has a very low XO point. Some where around 1700hz.While this is good for off excess dispersion and really helps out with issues related to the MTM design, it does cause the tweeter to work extremely hard and in an area where its distortion raises.
I have moved the tweeter XO up about 10% and while this has helped a great deal ( cleaner sound and better soundstage ), it did leave a 6db or so hole at the XO point which messes up the tonality of the system.
I plan to rework the bass / mid XO to better suit.In the process of doing this, the speakers have become more directional which is a negative if you are not sitting in sweet spot.
Please don’t take this as a negative against NC or George in any way.
Speakers are a compromise by nature and while a good set of compromises, George’s ideal, while close, just doesn’t match mine.
Saying that, I do feel that the drivers in the system are about the best you can get and the NC XO components are well up to the job.
For reference purposes, the rest of the system I currently have is like this.Ah! Tjoeb 99 CD player with loads of mods.
VanDenHul D-102 III Hybrid
Electronic Tonalities tube pre, lots of mods.
VanDenHul D-102 III
Counterpoint SA-100 ( updated by Mike Elliott )
Alpha Core MI 2
North Creek Rhythm speakers.I also use Magnapan MMG’s.
These planers are incredibly natural sounding on vocals and strings. They also have phenomenal sound stage depth, width and focus but don’t come close to the Rhythms in the dynamics department and are sort of directional.Any way, if I can get the Rhythms to do well what the MMG’s do well, combined with what the Rhythms naturally do well, I will be all set.
Lowes:
My local Loews has a large tubular jig that guides the saw. The cuts where totally accurate, perfect fit.Branwell
Thanks for the detailed reply.I understand you point on compromises. I have audtioned the Magnapan 1.6's and thought they had many desireable qualities, but, like you, thought they were lacking in dynamics. And while my audition wasn't extensive, perhaps a couple of hours, I thought that the soundstage was deep and airy, but a bit artifical. With the room and placement demands of the Magnapans I thought I should give greater attention to more traditional designs. Hence the North Creek speakers. Thanks again for your comments.
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