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For 3 years I have tweaked and tweaked my two channel system to the point that it is getting fairly good. To date I have focused on hardware, cabling, power conditioning and isolation but have spent no time other than speaker positioning on the room.My system has become fairly revealing and am thinking that some of the brightness and boomy bass I am experience is not the system rather more the room.
My house is a 1920's home. My listening room is my living room. Some of the facts are:
1. the room is 18 by 25 feet - I think this is good size and shape room at least compared to some I have read about
2. my system and speakers are along one of the 18 foot walls
3. the ceiling is 9 feet high
4. there is a large window (12 feet by 4 feet) on the opposite 18 foot wall. This window has no treatment either blinds or curtains
5. there are two smaller windows and a fire place along one of the 25 foot walls. They too are untreated - no blinds or curtains
6. WAF is very important - this is living room and already pushing the envelope with blue speaker cords, thick black power cords, and speakers away from walls
7. I listen on a couch which is about 15 feet from speakers
8. the room has an area rug in it that does help with soundMy current system is Ellis Audio 1801's, PS audio HCA-2 amp, Sono Silence passive preamp, modded Jolida cdp, and currently a B&W sub that gets used for movies only.
Use me as a case study. In an ideal setting what could I do to improve my room to get more out of my sound system (short of getting a new dedicated room). What should could I do first(thinking about WAF) Thanks for reading and your comemnts.
David
Follow Ups:
Check out:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a.htm
particularly:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a1.htm
which describes a basic treatment recommendation for a typical room.Also see:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/17541.html
Jon Risch
You say you've already got the speakers away from the walls. Good - get them as far away as practical because that increases the length of the early reflection paths relative to the direct path from the speakers to you. This reduces the level of the early reflections relative to that of the direct signal and helps make the direct signal more dominant which helps take the room out of your perceptions to a great degree.Next, add some absorption. Thick curtains on the windows helps, even if they're just bunched up and hanging at the sides of the windows. If they'e going to have to be like that, see if you can use sheers behind the main curtains and keep the sheers covering the window - you will be able to see through them but not as well as through the open window. It's also possible to get heavy, noise-absorbing liners for curtains which are intended to block sound from outside. They do a good job of absorbing sound inside the room also and they're invisible behind the main curtains so they have very high WAF due to invisibility. If curtains are permitted, the liners won't be a problem.
What do you have on the walls? Instead of framed pictures under glass, look at things like soft fabric wall coverings (tapestries, fancy quilts, or the like) or large bookcase areas full of books if you're into reading. I have 8 square metres of bookcase in my room and 24 linear metres of shelves in them. Books make good absorbers and books of different sizes can also act as diffusors to a degree. You can also increase the amount of absorption that books offer by pulling them forward towards the front of the shelf so that there's a space behind the books between them and the wall or bookcase back. Exosing that edge of the book rather than pushing it right up against the wall/bookcase back offers a very large increase in absorptive area. If you want pictures, consider paintings on canvas or similar and try lining the back of the painting with polyester batting out of sight where it can't be seen. Try making sure you have whatever you use for absorption covering the early reflection points in particular because it will be most effective there.
Bass traps are a problem because they're usually visible and not overly attractive. They also work best in corners and they're so large that they'll be far too visible anywhere else so go for the corners or forget them. There are some things you can try. You could consider the triangular foam wedge style of bass trap and get the foam in a colour that matches either the walls or the curtains so it appears much less obvious, or you could hide the wedges by placing a tall bookcase diagonally or display shelving across the corner in front of the wedges leaving a small gap on each side. If you have a bookcase or shelving across the corner, you could even use that to conceal normal the tube trap or panel trap style of bass traps. While it would be nice to do all 4 corners, aim for 2 - either the 2 behind the speakers or the 2 behind you.
It's hard to do anything in the way of attractive or invisible ceiling treatments but a thicker floor rug may help, as would a larger rug if it doesn't go wall to wall. Several small rugs would also work if they are placed strategically.
Try and keep the areas around the speakers and listening position relatively clear. If you have things close to the speakers try and make them absorptive - soft furnishings with foam or similar fills and fabric rather than leather covering - rather than reflective. Try to avoid having coffee tables or anything hard and reflective between you and the speakers - side tables beside the listening chairs/sofa can be a reasonable alternative.
While it isn't an acoustics tip, if you can afford it you should consider a good rack which isolates your components from floor borne vibration. Grand Prix Audio, Finite Element, and HRS all make racks which seem to be very effective and which are quite attractive though each has it's own style. You should be able to find one which fits in well with the rest of the room's decor. My Grand Prix Audio Monaco matches quite well with my chaisse which is a copy of the famous Le Corbusier one, my reproduction Eileen Grey side table, and the Italian reading lamp I have. The Finite Elemente and HRS designs may work better with more traditional room styles.
That's about my standard list of stealth treatments that aren't going to be noticed. You may well not be able to implement all but implement as many as you can and you should notice an improvement - a big one if you can do the lot. And remember that where you put things can be as important as what you do. You should be able to get some absorption in the room and placing it at the early reflection points is the best place to put it. If you can't place it at the existing reflection points, it may even be worth while moving the speakers and listening position slightly to change the location of the reflection points and ensure that they coincide with the placement of absorption.
David Aiken
I know this room isn't a good example of WAF, but I've lined the back/inside of the two paintings with 1" thick rigid fiberglass. I also have paintings at the first reflection point on the sidewalls also lined with rigid fiberglass. As you probably know, rigid fiberglass is an excellent acoustic absorber. I found that even with the surface of the painting being somewhat reflective, the addition of the fiberglass went a long way in reducing the reflection and smearing I was getting from my room...
Yes, rigid fibreglass would work also. Compared to the batting material I mentioned in the same location, the fibreglass would absorb at lower frequencies and reflect at higher.My main concern with fibreglass is the health issues. I used to work in occupational health and safety so I do tend to consider those things. You would need to wrap the rigid fibreglass to reduce the possibility of fibre shedding and, if you use batting materials for that as Jon Risch suggests in several places in his acoustics pages, that will give you the benefit of some absorption at higher frequencies where the unwrapped fibreglass would reflect.
Spacing the paintings away from the wall by a couple of inches will help also if you can find a way of doing that. Putting wooden spacers behind the corners of the frames would do the trick.
David Aiken
Hi DavidIm curious. How much and what effect does spacing the paintings from the wall have ?
I know the BBC spec traps recommend a 2inch air gap at the back of the absorber but that space is sealed like in JR's bass traps.Regards Chris
Hard to say since it will depend in part upon the wall but if you look at absorption spec sheets for most materials, spacing does improve the performance slightly.Bear in mind that we're not talking bass absorption here. The paintings most people will do this with are simply too small in area and the material they place behind them will be too thin, plus there's definitely no sealing at the side in what I'm suggesting.
David Aiken
wow David - Stealth accoustics. Appreciate you sharing your experience and time with me. Curtains seem like a pretty for sure. Ikea here I come. Will have to think about the others and how they might fit (like bass traps).David
David,> am thinking that some of the brightness and boomy bass I am experience is not the system rather more the room. <
No doubt about it. All the cable and gear tweaks in the world cannot overcome a low frequency response that varies 20-35 dB throughout the entire low end, or a room that rings for a full second at modal frequencies.
> the room is 18 by 25 feet ... the ceiling is 9 feet high <
Excellent.
> my system and speakers are along one of the 18 foot walls <
Also excellent.
> there is a large window (12 feet by 4 feet) on the opposite 18 foot wall. <
Assuming that wall is well behind you - say, 10 feet or more - it's not necessarily a problem.
> WAF is very important <
The only way you'll get rid of the boominess and skewed low end is with bass traps. And the more you have, the better the results. So start your planning early, beginning with rr$Ý and a box of chocolates. :)
--Ethan
My ISP garbled the post. That last line was supposed to read "beginning with roses and a box of chocolates."
Heh Ethan, your site discussing room acoustics and solutions was most helpful and easy to understand...thanks a million!
Larry
Larry,> your site discussing room acoustics and solutions was most helpful and easy to understand <
Thanks!
--Ethan
thanks Ethan - the roses and chocolate are easy ... still not sure how the other stuff will work :) So curious about your website - what is the address?David
David,> curious about your website - what is the address? <
www.realtraps.com
--Ethan
Hi David,What comes to mind is beautiful (for WAF) drapes for the window on the 18' wall. If you could swing it, floor to ceiling for the full width of the wall would be good. I have such a room as yours and put in the drapes along both short walls. Normally they are open but I close them for serious listening. They help a lot. Check out the Ikea website for good prices on drapes.
Dave
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