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I'm looking at build a subwoofer, or subwoofers, for my new MGMC1's. They will be used in two capacities, for filling out the MGMC1's when listening to music, and as an LFE channel for movies.I'm considering a pair of Dayton Titanic 12" Mk III's in sealed boxes, I think the boxes should be small enough to allow for flexible placement, and from what I've heard and seen they are fairly high quality drivers.
My question is will this be suitable for home theater use as well? I'm looking at building a custom electronic crossover for home theater use which will be bypassed and driven directly from my surround processor for movies. My room is medium in size, about 25'x18'x9' with one wall opening into the front entryway, so I'll need to push a bit of air.
Any suggestions will be appreciated, thanks!
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
Follow Ups:
As Thomas has suggested, ideally you need dipole subs with dipole speaker. Go have a look at Siegfried Linkwitz's site for dipole subs using a pair of Peerless 830500s in each box. He supplies the EQ/crossover board too. (The subs are part of the Phoenix speaker.)Regards,
Andy
Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure a dipole would be ideal here, as the MGMC1's don't behave like typical dipoles. They are wall mounted, and they use the wall as a sort of sounding board to boost up the midbass response.I'm borrowing an Infinity Kappa Perfect 12 based sub that behaves somewhat similiarly to the Titianic, to see how it performs. If it's lousy I'll try Linkwitz's design. That's some crossover he's got going on that project, but I guess that's to be expected :)
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
.
I had a single Dayton Titanic (12 month ago model so probably mk II) in my listening room with 3.5R maggies. It didn't stay there for very long and went to the friend who had me build it for his HT room. All I can say is that there was just no way to make it work with my speakers unless I turned it down so low that I couldn't tell anymore if it was adding bass or not.You need very fast bass drivers in subs for maggies, and these big drivers just don't deliver.
It'll boom real nice when used with the big explosions in hollywood mind-numbing entertainment, but it won't do much for the critical 2-channel listener. It'll push air alright, but don't expect much more. To me it didn't sound good in the HT room either. Just noise, but then that's probably what it was asked to reproduce.
Peter
That's odd, all the reviews and test reports say the Titanic's are pretty tight. Group delay for an ideal sealed box measures under 9ms across the spectrum, well under the threshold of audability. What box were you using, a custom box or the kit? I've heard the kit isn't an ideal design.
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
Just ignore his comments.Anyone dillusional enough to believe that smaller driver are 'faster' than large drivers, fundamentally fails to understand much of what's involved with dynamic driver loudspeaker design.
You're correct, the sealed Titanics are a pretty good sub, but certainly not state of the art. As with most you need to do in-room measurements and use EQ to flatten the in-room response.
If you want the best match for your Maggies use a dipole sub, if you have the budget and the space for multiple drive units. Next to a true IB, dipoles produce the best quality bass available.
you're really raising the discussion to a new high level herehey, but at least YOU know what's fundamental and are so willing to shrae it here. Wait, no you aren't - or I am so stupid that I can't see where you are explaining why I am dillusional
Arrogance like yours is what is driving me further and further away from this forum.
I don't even fell like discussing this with you, but one thing's for sure: that big old 12" cardboard driver in the Titanic isn't going to keep up with maggies - I have actually heard it.
Just ignore his comments.Anyone dillusional enough to believe that smaller driver are 'faster' than large drivers, fundamentally fails to understand much of what's involved with dynamic driver loudspeaker design
Perhaps this is all true, and driver size has nothing to do with the speed. (I tend to agree with you)
But, it is pretty harsh to dismiss his conclusion based only on this. When does the understanding of dynamic driver loudspeaker design serve as a requirement for ones ears to hear the speed of bass??
I am quite certain that his ears are right and that there is no way the Titanic could blend seemlessly with a 3.5r bass panel...few subs can.
That is the real issue- the speed of the wire/ Mylar bass panel versus a large cone driver.
The Titanic may be tight relative to other subs or other speakers, but Maggies are very quick...perhaps only slower than some electrostats.
You said yourself, that the Titanic was not "world class". Well, that is what I think is needed to really do it right. A REL or one of the higher end Velodynes is the way to go. Or on a budget perhaps the ML Grotto. I think that is what PBurke was getting at.
I wan't dismissing his option of the Titanic. It was his statement about fast/small woofers that's flawed.I have a pretty good idea about 'planars' and dynamic driver subs. I'm running a quad amped hybrid planar array.
Acoustat 1+1's are the woofers 85-600Hz, midrange is B&G RD-75 600-6kHz, line array of EAS-400D leaf tweeters 6kHz+. I have a floor mounted 'true' IB sub that uses one dozen Adire DPL-12's. The integration between the mains and the IB is seamless.
Unless I point out the outlet for the manifold, people have no idea that there is a sub in operation. Well that is until the bass waves flexing the floor are a bit much for any planar to produce ;^)
The newest SOTA woofers are using either Adire's XBL^2 technology, or the 'LM' (linear motor) designs from TC-Sounds
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