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I have been considering DIY speaker kits as an alternative to
prebuilt speakers. Can one truly get a speaker kit for say around $1K
that competes with speakers at a much higher price range as many claim?
Looking at the drivers used in some of these kits, it sure appears to be
the case.I have a pair of Monarchy SM-70s to use as monoblocks--they produce
70 WPC. I listen to all types of music in a midsize listening room.Some of the kits I was considering were:
ACI Sapphire III
ACI Jaguar 2 (only 87 db efficient, may not be a good match for my amp?)
Aria 5/ Raven R1 at Zalytron.
Dynaudio Aries at Madisound.
ScanSpeak kits (Soloist at Madisound, kit at BESL. Once again, around 87dB,
may not be a good match for my amp?)
Seas Odin
Any recommendations on which one of these kits would match my musical
preferences/equip/room? I am willing to spend up to around $2K for a kit
if it is worth the extra dough.Also, how complicated is building a speaker cabinet for these kits? I have
some experience woodworking--building coffee tables, computer desks, etc.
I may be better off just buying the cabinets, but it is an option to build
the cabinets.Thanks
Greg
Check out www.orcadesign.com they just posted a bunch of new kit designs. I would go for the 'Monster' kit if you want something close to the Wilson audio speakers. Also there is a kit which uses the Seas Odin woofers and the Raven tweeter at Zalytrons web page. You might build this kit and use an electronic xover to some subs, Focal 15vx.good luck!
Hi I have tried the kit route and still on it. I have built the dynaudio geminis with the top notch dynaudio esotec D260 tweeter and 15w75 mids in MTM alignment. But alas not big enough for my room. I have 2 month old pr. for sale. Lined with deflex panels for dampening, silver soldered with nordost wiring clear oak real veneer and trim with grills from madisound.Great sounding 91db efficient plays loud, very transparent lots of detail and good bass to 50hz. I can save you the trouble alot of money my loss is your gain compare to 2400 for contour 1.3mkII. Speaker is 18x8x11 approx. 25lbs each. See madisound kits for more description. 1200.00 invested. Contact me jwarner@lynchburg.net. Good luck
Another design to consider is the Focal Daline (an ORCA design, found in Zalytron's Catalog). These are basically the same as JMLabs' Daline 6.1 (transmission line tower, MTM design). This design uses Focal's 90tdX tweeter and two 6V415 mid-woofers (discontinued, 6V4411 a direct substitute?).I built a pair 3 years ago and have been very pleased. Zalytron seemed to prefer this design over the Arias. This speaker has a very natural, relaxed sound, that also reveals alot of subtle details. These speakers were a definite improvement over a fine pair of NEAR M40e's they replaced. They require about 100 hours of break-in before they sound their best. Since I made these speakers I find that I listen to music twice as much as before.
A buddy of mine built a set on the Dynaudio Gemini's and we compared the two side by side, and the results were not what we expected:
* The Dynaudio's bass was more prominent than the Focal's, but also it had its energy focused at the listener, versus the Focal's bass being more enveloping (transmission line?). A few weeks after this audition, I listened extensively to an acoustic quartet (2 violins, piano, acoustic bass) in a small room without any amplification; and I noticed that the bass actually sounded like that of my Focal Dalines.
* The Focal's high end was smoother and less fatiguing.
* Both sounded excellent.I made the following modifications to the design: double box construction, with rabbeted joints, dado jointed the transmission line, front baffle w/ 0.75" radius edge, outboard crossover, and tweeters offset 1" towards the inside edge (mirror imaged). (These weigh 110 pounds, each.)
The MDF that I used was 0.75" with laminates on both sides. The place that I purchased the MDF (cabinet shop) precut all of my pieces for only $35 extra. I highly recommend this! This saves an expensive carbide blade, saves time, and their equipment is made to handle the large MDF sheet and is more accurate. There was a full 4'x8' sheet of MDF in EACH speaker (double boxed).
Suggestions:
* Do NOT try to cut the woofer holes with sabre saw, even if it is a high end Porter Cable. Make a circular jig out of plywood and cut with a router on the inside. (You must calculate the radius taking into account the router bit and the distance from the router center to its edge.)
* Do NOT get cheap on components. You will spend alot of time building the speakers, you will not want to have regrets from saving small $$$.
* Cabinet construction is KEY. I believe it is the key to the fine nuances (the cabinet is quiet and doesn't obscure the details).
Hello,Just wondering if you've looked at the Audio Note speaker kits? Thy're certainly under 1K and
similar to the old Snell speakers. People I've spoken to who've tried them have nothing but good
things to say about how great they play music, but not standard 'hifi'. The N.A. distributors are
at : www.audionote.on.ca, and you can check the AN UK site for more details about themA.
First, go for it!Next, I'd say look for areas where you can 'add value' compared to the
ready made article. Take note of Peter S.'s excellent post for ideas.In particular look for things the professionals (building to a price!)
don't like doing - and therefore don't get done. Remember, market
appeal has a lot to do with *visible* perceived value; so look for the
less visible things and improve them.Some specifics.
Think about a transmission line. For the professional/production line,
they are awful! Lots of extra material inside (no visible value); awkward,
several joints that are not 90 degrees; complex assembly. Things that
put the pro off, but should not matter to the keen amateur. Make a good
one and you're into a class way way above the cost of all the bits.Double thickness panels, cross bracing etc. Yes, yes, yes!
Or at least use thicker material than standard.
In my case I used 20mm MDF for a speaker 8in wide x 12in deep which is
cross braced everywhere (another advantage of TL's - the baffles act as
bracing). Also the front panel is double thickness plus a bit more ...
Anyway, all these things will reduce colourations to give a really
'clean' result. You'll then realise how badly coloured (and slightly
muffled as well as a result) many speakers are.Make a floor stander.
The extra material cf a stand mount isn't much, and will cost far less
than a decent stand. What's more you get the mechanical integrity of a
complete unit (though OK, there can be benefits from decoupling things;
but I'd say start simple but good, try esoteric things later).Try for a bit of elegance.
Generally this means a speaker that's narrow, but it can be tall and
fairly deep. This also has the advantage (usually) of better imaging.
So how to get bass from such an enclosure?
Well, special cabinet configurations will do it - eg TL's (my preference
as if this wasn't obvious!); special tuned bass chambers/ports (see some
Dynaudio designs). These things give good bass from a limited size
drive unit.
Or make the speaker deep and put a larger bass driver in the side.
This way, the driver size isn't limited by the baffle width. Note though,
it should only handle the low bass which is less directional, so you'd
need a mid range unit (on the baffle of course) as well.Don't skimp on the crossover. Again, no visible value to this, so you can
do better than most of the professionals building to a price and perceived
value.If it sounds good, finish it well! Think about exotic wood veneer - the
right kind of iron-on veneer is very easy to use.I'd say my IPL S3TL's (using SEAS units) which cost 300 UK pounds all in
(yes, incl. veneer) sound in the 1500 pound class and look like a couple
of k's worth.All this is personal opinion of course! Use any thoughts you think are
OK and discard the rest .... (smile)
I'm a happy owner of a pair of Madisound Dynaudio Gemini... They replaced my EPOS ES-11, and I'm glad I made the change.
This is the kit I own and I have no reservations in recommending them, I plan on writing up a full length review soon enough when I'm comfortable with all their aspects and am confident they are fully broken in.Besides what you've no doubt read on the info pages, there are some interesting aspects to the Aries:
- they're extraordinarily clear and articulate sounding
- exceptionally neutral tonally
- go very deep (high 20s hz in room, low 30s anechoic)
- dynamically reserved, and insensitive (they're stated at 89 db but I suspect they're closer to 86 db) they need a fair amount of juice to really start to open up dynamically
- very good soundstaging, though not particularly wide or deep, very pinpoint within the stage itself
- construction was very easy, taking maybe 3 days casually or 2 days fairly focused on the work
- the stock cabinets from madisound look ugly IMO and some have expressed concern about its acoustic effects on the design, consider sourcing your own cabinets, i wish I had....
- I ordered mine with upgrade to Nordost internal wiring and deflex panels, hard to say how it effected sonics but I have no complaints and both upgrades combined totalled less than 40 bucks
- Madisound shipped it with half the required internal wiring but immediately shipped the difference quickly and free of charge, this has happened to another Aries owner too
- Madisound is amazing with service and I highly reccomend them
There you go, good luck! Ive not heard the other designs so cannot comment, but I love my design and if you like floorstanding two-ways....then what's the question? pick these babies up.
I suggest the Odins, but your choice will come down to your ears.If you like the sound of the ProAc's then the North Creek is for you.
If you like the sound of the Hales Trasendence Series then the Odins are for you. Albiet the Odins do sound better. If you up grade the kit to the EX woofs and Millenium Tweet, D-260 Tweet, or SS tweet its a speaker that will rival all others (IMO).
Depends upon what you like.
If your not into building cabinets:
MDC makes great cabinets with thick baffles and 1" MDF side and back walls. He can build an excellent cabinet, that looks great with grills for $350 to compliment the Odin drivers.
Zalytron offers kits with the E's and EX drivers with several tweets and the Raven ribbon. Completed designs for all these discussed kits just add drivers a finished X/O some damping and screw the drivers in.
Elliots cabinets look a wee bit too homemade, but the are better than wood styles from the technical view, and Woodstyles from Madisound are not the best made units, but they do look pretty good.
If you have further interest in going this way contact me and I'll fill you in on options, tweaks and X/O's. If you want to spend more money and do this the easy way --- I sell finished products, I do this not as my source of business so I don't make much off them.
BESL also makes several kits all designed to mated with subs. BESL is a good designer and his kits (the ones I've heard) are good sounding.
jeff
jefflewno@glis.net
I built the Aria 5R kits from Zalytron over a year ago, and absolutely love the speakers. The cabinets the Elliot builds are solid (two layers of 3/4" MDF for a total of 1-1/2"), the driver rebates are well done. You are on your own on the crossover boards, but the components supplied are very good quality (Axon caps. made by SCR, 18 and 16 ga air core inductors).As far as the sound, they are wonderfully detailed and smooth, with great 3-dimensionality. The Focal kevlar drivers are very well behaved. The Raven is sweet. I have had several of my audio buddies over, and they have been tremendously impressed with these speakers. They also seem to be very SET friendly, I am driving them comfortably with homemade 300B monoblocks, in spite of the nominally 4 ohm impedance of the speakers. I feel that the real commercial competition to these speakers are in the $3000 to $4000 price range, so they are a tremendous value.
Thoroughly recommended.
David
Greg,Welcome to the world of DIYing! Once you've successfully built your first speakers you'll find it very difficult to go back to commercial designs.
you've got some very good choices listed and Batman mentions two other excellent designs (Aerial and ME2). You might also take a peek at the SEAS Odin (uses SEAS Excel drivers) and Mike McCalls BLRS. The BLRS was a cooperative effort from the old Bass List group. Check out www.shamrockaudio.com (hope I got that address correct). Orca design studios (Kimon Bellas) has a number of designs available beyond the Focal Aria/Raven design you have in your list.
I won't expand on Batman's very cogent point about kit crossover design. Suffice it say that tweaking the XO is one of the attractions (for me anyway) of DIYing.
However, as far as cabinets go. The cabinet will (IMO) make or break even the best DIY design. I"m mainly focusing on the mechanical/acoustics side of cabs rather than the cosmetics side.
Sice you already have some woodworking experience you likely possess the skills to produce a good solid cab.
Things a speaker cabinet MUST do: 1. provide the appropriate mechanical rigidity for the drivers. 2. Provide the correct acoustical properties for those drivers.
As to #1: the box has to be solid, w/ tight joints, and be as acoustically inert as possible.
As to #2: the box, regardless of the type of enclosure (sealed,vented, transmission line, etc) must provide the correct internal volume and acoustic tuning (if applicable) for the drivers. The cab may also have to posess the correct physical traits to provide mechanical alignment of the drivers or acoustic filtering of internal acoustic energy.
What's worked for me (as derived from above): Heavy and ridgidly braced works. Thin, flimsy cabs w/ lots of damping work, but not as well. MDF is the best low cost cab. panel material. 9-13 layer birch plywood makes the best (again low cost, easily avail) bracing material. Double thick walls work. More's law: if some is good, more's better. Braces make a BIG difference. Witness Thiel, B&W, Watt, etc. Use the best fasteners you can find. Use the best gaskets you can find. Use a non-ridgid type adhesive to laminate and bond panels (liquid nails type). Use damping materials on the inside of the cab. to further reduce spurious acoustic energy, a good rule of thumb is 10%, by weight, of the undamped cab. BTW I'm referring to damping pads, glop, sand/mineral type damping not acoustic damping (wool, acrylic fiber types). Seal all seams, twice at least. Hope you find some of this useful. Good luck w/ your project.
I built the Speaker City ScanSpeak 7(18W/8545k & D2905/9500) recently, and they're great. Similar drivers to the ACI Jaguar although I'm not sure exactly what the Jag uses. The Scan 7 cabinet design is simpler than the Jaguar if you're worried about that aspect as a first-time builder. This was my first speaker building attempt, and it went pretty smoothly for me. There's a guy who uses the nickname Batman here at AudioAsylum who is also building a set of Scan 7's, and I'm expecting him to post his impressions of them before long if you want a second opinion. Check out www.northcreekmusic.com if you haven't already. There are some nice kits there, too. You can definitely make something that competes with retail speakers costing much more. It would take a very special retail speaker to convince me not to DIY from now on.
Whether or not you can build your own speakers at your stage depends on what you try to build. As the size of the cabinet increases so does the need for complex joinery to insure that the cabinet is free of resonance. Smaller speakers like the ones you mentioned and the Scan7 which I'm currently building need only cabinets with simple butt joints. Most folks recommend that first timers assemble a kit since in general your results are more predictable and you'll learn something by seeing how the designer and cabinet maker did things. Speaker kits vary from mature designs with crossovers which have been tweaked by the designer (the ACI kits) to designs in which the crossover is less "mature" and benefits from some additional tweaking. The major problem with all kits is that its unusual to be able to audition a kit before you build it so how it will sound with your system ends up largely being an educated guess. Ultimately what you build also depends on the size of your room, whether or not you have a sub, and all the other usual things attendant to picking a speaker.
If you can cut a board to a tolerance of 1/32" across it's length, then you can generally build your own cabinets. If you build your own cabinets you will need a table or radial arm saw, a router and selection of bits, a drill and a cordless screwdriver. Since good cabinets require MDF, you'll need carbide blades and bits. Also since MDF is difficult to finish well, you'll need to be able to apply veneer to the finished cabinets if you want them not to look home made.
The speakers you've mentioned are all popular kits which seem to be well designed, especially the ACI kits. Mike D of audio concepts hangs out here from time to time and would gladly answer your questions. In addition, check out the designs at northcreek (www,northcreekmusic.com).
Probably the granddaddy of DIY speakers is the Aerial. It's a very sensitive speaker and has an extremely complex cabinet which should only be attempted by experienced cabinet builders. However, I noticed that the designer is about to begin offering ready-made cabinets for this unit. The speakers and crossover alone for this unit go for about 1K so this unit with a pre-made cabinet is probably within your price range . Check out the aerial page (http://www.teleport.com/~lynno/Ariel.htm) and while your there check out the less-complex ME-2 as well.
Hey, Ears, I expect to drop the drivers in the cabinets today or tomorrow. The best news from this project so far is that I splurged and bought Bill Jasper's circle-cutting jig for my router. I've never had such perfect inlays for speakers before :-) Those of you who need a circle cutter should check out his stuff (www.jasperaudio.com).
Batman mentioned the Ariels. I'm partially through building the smaller ME2's using North Creek's standard kit. They also have a few more kits for you to consider. I won't have the cabinets built until later this summer, but if you decide to go this route and have any specific questions, please don't hesitate to ask.One of the advantages to me with this design is that it is "upgradeable". I can build the simpler ME2 now and if I decide later to build the Ariels, all I have to do is build the cabinets -- the drivers and external crossover are the same. Plus, the documentation from Lynn Olsen is beyond belief!
Good Luck
-Michael
If you are building the ME2, review the box design using the equations in the Speaker Design Cookbook. You will find that the box has too little volume for the Bessel 4th-order alignment that the designer is trying to achieve. Put the design parameters into some speaker design software, and you will find that the boxes are predicted to have very little bass. The fix is to replace the diagonal braces with some simple shelf braces to give more volume, or to drill holes in the diagonal braces, so that the volume behind them is active. The vents need to be modified as well. I built ME2's with these corrections, and am very happy with them. I wouldn't even consider building the ME2 cabinets now.Happy Building,
TC
I've been seriously considering these for some time and the documentation is the big advantage to me. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get much other detail like what you mentioned and would like some before putting this much cash down on a kit (that I will hopefully be living with for several years).Would you elaborate on the changes you made? Does 'venting' or removing the braces result in approx the optimum volume by your calculations? What is the effect on the sound; how much LF extension is gained, midrange affected at all? What changes to the port do you recommend? Any noticeable 'port huff' before or after the changes? Of course any comments on the overall characteristics would be appreciated too.
Darren
I don't have the details with me. Correct volume and port size can be calculated using the simple equations in the Speaker Design Cookbook by Vance Dickinson, using the published specs for the Vifa woofers. I recommend checking them yourself before starting.
The cabinets have the right volume if the diagonal braces in the back of the cabinet are removed. I added two small (1 1/2" wide) shelf braces in the back to replace these and cut down on back panel resonance. I changed the vents to two 1 1/2" diameter (by 6" long, I think) to match the box tuning frequency.
I never built the ME2 cabinets as drawn on the Ariel web site, since I discovered the volume error as I was building them, so I can't give you a before/after listening comparison. The changes above should have only altered the low-frequency response. I doubt the midrange was affected much, if at all. I haven't noticed any vent "huff", but I did make the switch from 1" to 1 1/2" vents to reduce this.
With my rudimentary woodworking skills, and only a few hours a week, it took me about 3 months to complete them.
Thanks for responding. Didn't think there was much chance this far down the list. Even if it only gains 5-10hz, sounds like a good idea to me. For all the disclaimers on the Ariel site saying that you really should build it to spec, seems like those who make thoughtful changes are still happy with the result.
Build the Ariels to spec. Transmission lines are an art.
The ME2's are a vented design - a well known technology.
I suspect that Lynn Olsen never built the ME2 boxes, or he would have caught the error.
The effect of the error isn't small - it might make more than a 10dB difference at 60 Hz. Without the correction, the speakers would have very weak bass.
Thanks for the tip. I've only finished the crossovers and have been waiting to deal with the cabinets themselves until this summer. It looks like I'll have a little redesign work ahead. Thanks again.-Michael
I just finished the Jaguars. Superlative. If you are interested go to
the link below. I have a lengthy article with pix and sketches there
As Tom commented, the Sapphires are more efficient, smaller, and easier
to build. Especially if you are going to do a Sub.
Great job on the Jags. Really good article. Between the pointers I wrote and your article, building the Jags might not be so full of surprises for newbies.I like your cabinet treatment--outstanding. I covered mine with 3/8" cherry on the sides and 5/8" walnut on the front. Haven't made the grills yet. I attached the wood with construction adhesive--figured it might deaden the cabinets more than wood glue.
I agree with everything you said in your article. I beleive if I were building them again, I'd make my own clamps out of 2X4's and threaded rod. Standard clamps have a tough time with the odd shapes--bands are good, but I believe one could easily make stonger clamps that would outperform the bands, without too much effort. That's the problem with DIY, I usually learn on the first one and could build a second in 1/4 the time. Also, I usually hesitate to build clamps and jigs for only one project--usually a bad idea I have found. It would be better if I invested the time and effort at the beginning. Then I'd have the clamps and jigs and avoid problems.
I'm rambling--anyway, you did a great job on the speakers and the article.
Good luck and good listening. Great speakers, aren't they?
Tom Bourg,
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
After the fact, you were right about sanding to fit ... wound up doing it anyway. Yes, they are phenomenal speakers! I've never known what I was missing!Actually, I think that band clamps, with biscuits and strategically placed wedges, would give more than enough pressure. I've never found MDF needs anywhere near the clamping "grunt" that hardwoods do. Of course the 10% humidity and 80 degree temps here might help. (I doubt you've ever seen that in Louisiana!)
I agree about jigs and custom clamps, worth it for mass production, "clutter" for one project.
I'd like to see the cherry/walnut treatment myself.
Any pictures of your Cherry/Walnut Jags?
xxx
I don't know about the ACI kits but the Dynaudio Aries is extremely cheap for what you get. Making my own cabinets I can get the whole setup for two speakers for $650. If you don't have the woodworking stuff you can get the cabinets pre-made for a little more. I believe they are pre-veneered and such.I can't comment on the Aries because I'm still in the process of making them, but I have read many good reviews of them. The Jaguars might be just as good or better.
I can tell you that it will be fun, though perhaps a bit scary at times. In the end you'll have a pair of speakers that you can proudly say you built.
Now all I have to do is kick my cabinet-making friend in the wazoo and build these boxes...
Shawn Harvey
Hello,I just finished building ACI's Jaguar and Titan speakers and they are top notch. The Jaguar is not that difficult to build, but I would not call it a beginner project. The Titan subwoofer is a "piece of cake" and anyone with even rudimentary woodworking skills and a tablesaw should be able to build one.
I understand the Sapphire III is much easier to build than the Jag, and since it is more efficient, it seems like a logical choice to me.
For the bucks you have to spend, you can easily build the Saphires and one or even two Titans. That would be a killer system. Check around for reviews of the Sapphire III, all the reviews by owners and others rate it very highly.
Good luck.
Tom B.
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