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I own one, in great cosmetic shape, but I've never checked it out electronically. I recently moved to New York--first floor of an UWS prewar, no outside antenna--and it's performance there is inadequate. (I know--that's tough duty.) I've been using one of those cheap, plastic Sony HD tuners instead--I happened to buy one when they were still available--and while I could hope for better, it brings in a few stations (The Columbia University station; WGBO, WFMU, but unfortunately not WQXR) adequately--far better than the Mac.
My question: Is it worth getting the Mac tuner aligned and possibly upgraded? The MR78 is known as a top-notch performer, technically. If it was in top shape, would it be competitive with or better than the little Sony--while, presumably, providing better sound quality?
Also: There are a couple of certified Mac service centers in the city; has anyone had any experience with their tuner work?
Thanks.
Jim
Follow Ups:
IMHO you can significantly upgrade your Sony tuner if you send it to Mike Williams (AKA "Punker X"). He advertises in the Tuner forum over at www.audiokarma.org.
Go for the full upgrade (I'd skip the cooling fans - The Sony will not heat up if you set the display to its lowest illumination level after his mods).
You will be shocked at the improvement in sound quality!
I've read the new McIntosh MR88 sounds even better and is even more sensitive than the Punker X modded Sony HD tuner, but I don't see one in my future because of its high cost.
"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
---------------
Samuel P. Hunting
I have only owned one MR78, bought it for $500, sold it for nearly twice that in the mid to late 1980's, and the buyer had me ship it to audioclassics for the Modiferri mods http://www.audioclassics.com/mods and they shipped it on to him. I sure would have liked to play with it after they had it, but people in hell want icewater. If i were you i would pick up one of the Sony XDR-f1hd's or a Sansui 717, sell the Mac, and move to a place where I could put up a decent antenna! (or see what I could get with the Sony and any antenna I could get away with.)
jm2c,
Hal
would make you think of a tuner, any tuner, as a solution before you would think about antennas.Let alone moving somewhere else - which clearly isn't likely.
SQ is particularly important for a classical listener - which is what WQXR broadcasts. The Sony tuner you recommended is i) no longer made and ii) is not exactly renowned for its sound quality on FM. And HD aka Hybrid Digital isn't either, no matter what box you use for it.
His problem will almost certainly be multi-path plus masking by large buildings, and only a directional antenna can address those problems. Yes?
Because no tuner made can reject multi-path. Not even the Sony.
So that aiming at a relatively clean (low-multipath) and strong reflection is likely to be his only solution. Yes?
In the rest of the thread there are posts about a largish - but hide-able - wire DIY indoor antenna type - directional with gain - that might address his problem.
Boggles my mind, just a bit. Given that you used to have a very good directional antenna yourself.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 11/03/15
"would make you think of a tuner, any tuner, as a solution before you would think about antennas.
Let alone moving somewhere else - which clearly isn't likely."
Because of the idea of living on the first floor of any building in NYC, I cannot imagine a worse fm signal nightmare. But that is what it is. If he could live anywhere he could put up a yagi at any height, with any hope of getting a clear signal from the direction he wants it from... then yes. Antenna trumps tuner each and every time. The antennacraft fm-13 is the best directional antenna I ever got erected. http://ham-radio.com/k6sti/fm13.htm
" So given that you really had nothing to contribute ......
Why post?"
Good question. I'll try to consider that before posting here in the future.
Warmer regards,
Hal
F'whoop about DIY indoor wire rhombics, eh?You didn't read the entire thread, nor the article here at FAQ?
So given that you really had nothing to contribute ......
Why post?
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 11/09/15
But I do own both the MR78 and the Sony XDR-F1HD. If anything other than background music is the goal, I can't recommend the Sony. It's not awful sounding, but it's no MR78.
Great RF performance though!
"You won't come back from Fletcher-Munson curve"-Jan and Dean
"It's not awful sounding, but it's no MR78. Great RF performance though!"
Agree 100%. Just thought the big problem for the poster here was getting a wanted signal in the big city, can be done much more cheaply.
might be an even better idea.
Given that no tuner made can reject multipath.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
A cheap tuner with a decent antenna out-performs an expensive tuner with no antenna every time. You need to begin exploring what antrnna options will work in your circumstances.
Thanks. I've tried most indoor options, including a MD ST-2 and Silver Ribbon. I'll see if I can mount outside without being noticed--not sure that will help much though, since I'm surrounded by solidly constructed buildings on all sides. There's no chance of getting anything on the roof.
Jim
But you will need to know where to point it (or two of them?)Where the relevant transmitters are? There is a website called FM Fool which can help with that information.
The rhombic article is here at AA's FAQ.
IMO it is the best way to make a refurb of the Mac worth your while.
There is even a spread pattern version in the article.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 10/08/15 10/08/15
I checked out FM Fool-pretty cool, although their ordering of signal strength at my location lines up only roughly with the quality of reception here. I'm guessing they have no way to account for tall buildings.
I'm interested in the rhombic antenna and will explore further. Another thing about NY apartments is there's not a lot of room for, say, shop equipment.
Thanks,
Jim
FM just is directional, and is thus prone to multi-path - reflections ..... boing- boing, and when listening crackles and fizz. and weirdly strained phasey sound.
I do get what you are facing. Multi-path doesn't have to be grossly obvious to be affecting your received sound.
If you have a Significant Other who LOVES FM then you may be able to build one or more rhombics, and 'conceal' them.
Big tall city buildings. This is what DAB was developed for and for mountainous terrain, IE satellite radio firing down. HD radio isn't HD and doesn't sound better than good FM from a good antenna
The only reasons - two - for me to bother with FM and antennas are these two stations.
http://www.abc.net.au/classic/music-listings/?date=2015-10-10
a national free public broadcaster's classical network - Satellite based but the grnd txers are FM (and DAB).
http://artsound.fm/ which is far broader and local and for who I used to - and will return to - record live acoustic stuff in 2-mike stereo.
Antennas matter to me because ii) Canberra is inside the Great Dividing Range and we are between two Mt's in a strong signal area, and i) on my path to senior NCO rank in the infantry I had to learn to be a good signaller / radio man?! I had to become well above average at all the infantry specialist roles, in fact. Good reception is never where cover from observation or fire is good.
Happy to be a sounding board.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Tim(bo),
Thanks for this; it was fun to read and inspirational. This is a problem I intend to work on over the next few months. I'll post progress.
Cheers,
Jim
Two big problems.
Strong reflections, and aiming inside a ferro-concrete building? There are now GPS based compass apps for smart phones.
Mine seems to be unaffected by being indoors in our house which has a large number of (now redundant) AC-mains powered heating panels above the ceiling, which are still earthed, so are probably forming a partial Faraday screen.
Which reflection or main signal direction to aim at for station X?
I don't know if FM fool tells you the polarisation of each FM transmitter's signal. It is usually mixed ie some vertical and some horisontal or circular. A rhombic won't really 'care' about pol'n.
A T antenna mounted on a swivel either vertically on a sort of lazy-susan base / or horisontal may help you find the best axis for a rhombic. Use the signal-strength meter on the MR78 and listen. Or borrow a field-strength meter - if it's too optimistic. ? Lots of SS meters on tuners are, to make the tuner seem sensitive in the store.
Record the bearing that gives the least worst sound (best?) off the T-ribbon for each desired station. Then decide if you need a spread rhombic or two. It may depend on how many desired stations you have.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Jim, the MR-78 is worth getting aligned - if you want to upgrade it - Audio Classics (No connection) offers Monferdini (SP?) based Modifications (He was a designer at McIntosh for a while - leading up to and including the MR-78) - Head over to Tunerinfo.com for a more in-depth review-
If you can get a wire out a window - the MR-78 should best the sony...
But the Sony will get all the HD stuff...
Happy Listening
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