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It's been awhile since I have been around. I did a search, no definitive answer.
I just upgraded my Magnum Dynalab FT-11 to a MD Etude. I'm using a Metz antenna which is the same as a MD ST-2. I have one local college station that I am having noise problems with in stereo. (Signal, strength is about 9, multipath reads just needle width over 0.) I have lowered it considerably with one nameless 1m cable. I have tried 4 other cables, including a $10 Monster brand from my local hardware store. The Monster cable was really bad. It is kind of a high pitch squeal.
The funny thing is while I was was waiting for the Etude I installed a 40yr old Yamaha CT-600 with a cheap plastic dipole, it had no noise at all. I even tried the dipole with a cheap adaptor on the Etude,but really noisy. I can change the amount of noise by moving the cable.
So l'm looking for a 4ft or 1m 75ohm cable with F connectors, that has excellent insulation from noise. Maybe all I need is a really good Rg6 cable with proper connectors. Or could it be a grounding issue? The Etude is plugged into a PS Audio Dectet with a Pangea AC-14SE MkII. ICs are the same as I used on the last two tuners.
Any specific recommendations?
As a side note, while Yamaha was quiet, the sound from the Etude blows away the Yamaha and the little FT-11. It actually surprised me, as FM has always been for background listening.
Follow Ups:
As a former MD dealer I have never thought much of that antenna. Connect it to the Yamaha and see for yourself. Also search that antenna here and you'll find not much good said of it. We used one in our showroom and a wire dipole beat it hands down. Nix the ST-2 put something on the roof or in the attic. If you don't want to do that even rabbit ears which can retain their exact position unlike a wire dipole is a cheap solution.
E
T
A standard Dipole is better than the st-2....
Happy Listening
Yep and as we respected MD for their tuners we (employees at dealer)were all surprised how shitty the ST-2 is/was.
E
T
What surprises me is that the ST-2 got a good review from (I believe it was) Stereophile. I just did a search of their site, and couldn't find it, so I may be mistaken about it being Stereophile, but I don't think so. Stereophile was one of the two magazines I subscribed to back then, the other being Listener. And I don't believe Listener ever did an antenna review. Tuners, yes, but not antennas.
About twenty years ago I sold my house and moved into an apartment in another state, to (once again!) chase employment. I missed my roof mounted Yagi, which was in storage, and actually considered the ST-2 because of the review. I'm always happy I re-considered, and saved myself the $100. I'd have built Timbo's suggested rhombic, if only I'd known about it back then.
I have one hanging on the side of my house abandoned. Free to whoever wants it.
AB.
I still think sometimes that well it must have been environmentally related, I mean the reason I hated the ST-2. Then I see (another) post like this one from AB. The preponderance of evidence is negative.
E
T
The cables aren't noisy, too short to cut your signal level mush at all. The problem you have is low signal level, and probably multipath in the room itself. Possibly some earth problems as well.FM just is directional. Do you know the compass bearing from your home to each of the station transmitters you want to listen to.
A directional FM only antenna with gain (not amplified) due to its size / length is the reliable solution.
You could build a rhombic on your ceiling, pointed at this one station. See FAQs here.
In short, your antenna is the problem not the various cables.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 04/02/15
Thank you everyone for the replies.
Awe-d-o-file, The St-2 is manufactured by Metz. I do agree with you, not a very good antenna. I've probably owned it for 15+ years. I listen to two stations, both connected to local colleges. The one I listen to the most, is the noisy one. The other station comes in completely quiet.
The reason I asked about the cable, was that with the antenna in the same place, I got different levels of noise with different cables. The one no-named one causing less noise. The cheap Monster would change noise levels, as I moved it around.
For now, a roof antenna is not possible, between cost, and installation,I am sticking with an indoor antennas. I am somewhat of a DIY guy, but have a fear of heights, so I can't get on the roof. The attic is full of insulation, no way for me to get up there, once again height issues. None of my friends can help me with heights. Any Asylum members in Milwaukee?
I don't think it is a signal strength issue, as the Etude is showing around 9 out of 10 on the meter.
Does anyone have pics of the Rhombic antenna? I have no trouble with the terminal blocks, and the resistors, I just don't follow how the antenna itself is built. I will reread those instructions again. I might want to try a dipole again first. Can anyone recommend a quality balun? I'll need one anyway, if I build the Rhombic.
I have found the antenna in the link below, they make some big claims. Has anyone tried one?
I tried one and it worked really well, so I bought another one for another room. The best I have found for indoor reception. But nothing beats my attic mounted.
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=tuner&n=14128&highlight=abliss&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dtuner%26searchtext%3Dabliss
Rabbit ears are dipoles of a kind.It may perform better than the ST-2. It should be as good as a dipole and can be optimised for each desired station, a bit more easily. IF these is sufficient signal inside your house. Seems pretty marginal at present.
FM radio reception in the home is a systems problem, and the best results can only be obtained by a directional* antenna (* one with gain and some size). The gain helps to push noise down. The narrow pattern minimizes distortion and noise from multipath - indoor antennas are not as good at that, or not at all good at it.
I was gifted an 'FM?' whip antenna once, gave it away. They are basically boat antennas.
IME most tuners (even MD's?) have optimistic signal-meter needles. IF it has a numerical readout use that instead.
There are quite a few drawings of the rhombic in the FAQ article here at AA. Remember that if you are going to build a double rhombic with 300 ohm twin-lead ribbon - as the article mostly assumes - you mustn't twist the ribbon anywhere.
? Back before coaxial down-lead that's what we did to ribbon down-leads to stop them picking up any signal. ;-).
The rhombic can be made square [ ] or more <> but the long diagonal axis - through the loading resistors - needs to point at the station or stations.
That's why I asked did you know where these 'two?' stations are on the compass from you and how far?
You may be lucky and find that a diagonal axis of your largest room points at at least one of the stations. A square rhombic will probably have a quite wide beam width and may cover both. The spread out dual rhombic (it IS there) with two overlapping beam widths < might do do the job.
You'll need a map and to visit the USA's FMFool website. And a compass or two. I have a good GPS based compass app on my iPhone, and so you might/can use it inside the rooms as well. It won't be affected by magnetic materials. Depends on GPS reception in your home.
If you have a large rug in the room you might avoid pinning a rhombic to the ceiling.
Happy to be an advisor for a rhombic build, but the article is pretty complete on the practicalities IMO. Read it a few times and take notes.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 04/04/15
Hi Tim, hey thank you for turning me on to the FM Fool website. That would be a good link to add to FAQ. I now know where the transmitters are. And that though they are both under 6 miles from me, the clean signal is more powerful, and at a better angle for the side of the house I have my system on.
Knowing how much room the Rhumbic could take, I want to try other options first. I need to go buy a good balun, the adapter I have is crap. Then I will try the plastic dipole, with a whole different layout.
I still find it strange the the old Yamaha had no problem with both stations, and my MD is being difficult.
When I get this sorted out, the Metz [ST-2] will be up for sale.
If I get your ok, I'll email you my address, the call letters and maybe you could look at FM Fool and help me understand the info a little better. And knowing where the two stations are, make some suggestions.
If I understand that antenna I linked to, it sounds like I'd be mounting it to the wall, with the antenna running parallel to the floor. Is that right?
Thanks for all your help, Happy Easter!
Jeff
you adjust the position and length of the two rods, and then you twiddle the knob. Usually I find that having the rod closest to the station's txer slightly shorter than the one behind it.I am in Australia, maate. So, you will need to get a topographical map of where you are which includes the transmitter (txer) sites.
You should also use google maps to get a compass picture of your home's orientation on the block.
Then you plot the bearings on the big map from your place to the two txer sites. Then plot them on to the block picture and from the room and tell me us about that.
And then use the phone app. to find where they might be in relation to your room with all its reflections. You may find there is one set-up that's best for both stations. You may need two very different arrangements for the rods and the knob. You may find that neither is exactly pointed where the maps you have done say they should be pointed.
This will be due to your room's own reflections.
I have been fortunate until ,now to have just one big tower on a tallish mountain to aim at for TV and FM. Now one of the two FM stations I listen to has moved some 15 degrees east of that mountain. And it is the one with the least signal. And, I am using a tube RF front end for my main tuner. IME tube front ends need much more signal to go fully quiet. So, I am thinking through all this myself.
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Edits: 04/05/15
Hey Tim, thought The oz might have been related to "the Wizard Of Oz". Never considered you were in Australia.
Thanks to FM Fool, I got to thinking about the best location for my antenna. I took the two longest pieces of coax cable I had and put the antenna in the spare bedroom, which is closest to transmitters. I tried the plastic dipole first, still had noise. I put the Metz [ST-2] in there, just put up at about a 45 degree angle, and no more background noise. Both stations I listen to are about 6 miles away, and both are now clear and clean.
I just need to get a 30ft run of good coax, to neaten up the installation, and I'm done.
I appreciate all the advice. For anyone else, wanting to optimize their antenna placement, I've included the FM Fool link. You can see where your transmitters are, how powerful your station is, and much more.
It 'depends.'
You have got that, now.
:-).
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
Thanks Timbo, I was hoping you'd see his post and chime in.
To the original poster: If you can't (or won't) put a directional antenna on your roof, then at least put one in your attic. If that's not an option, then build the rhombic Timbo suggests (link below).
Timbo's advice is on target. The problem isn't with your tuner, or the cables you're using, it's the weak signal your feeding in from your Metz antenna.
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