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Last night I had my CJ Premier 17LS set on "epl2" (theater loop) and I was watching TV. I then decided to play a CD, so I hit the epl2 botton on the remote which changes the preamp to Source. BOOM!!! -- I heard a very load pop, more like a boom, through my speakers. And when this happened, (1) the volume on the CJ was set at "1" on both channles (the lowest level) and (2) the CD player was on the "stop" setting.I believe my speakers have been blown (Klipsch KLF20s -- please no flames). When I try to play a CD, or DVD, or the TV, the speakers crackle. Also, the volume is much lower on the Left and Right channels (the gain seems to have decreased radically), so I think the CJ is roached!
What could have happened? Could a faulty tube have caused this? There is no way any other component could be implicated, and I'm sure I did nothing wrong. (there was no thunder storm or anything and nothing else in my apartment was affected).
I am outraged and don't know what to do. I'll call the dealer now, but would like to know your thoughts. If the CJ's malfunction ruined my speakers, I want the dealer, or CJ, to pay for their repair.
Thanks!
Follow Ups:
I had a similar static discharge issue with my CJ PV-14L (not premier 14) when I owned it. I also saw static shut down a BAT CD player in a dealer showroom when the sales guy touched one of the buttons on this CDP. I live in Colorado and its extremely dry here with lots of static. I always touch my metal equipment stand before touching any of my audio components. I get zapped almost every time! Hopefully nothing was permanently damaged.
If your preamp never did the same thing before, then it could be that the signal path of CD had static accumulated when it's not played and EPL2 was selected. When you switched out EPL2 and came back to CD, the release of static charge suddenly went through and created what you heard. Did your humidity happen to be very low at the time of the incident?Just my guess. But true it's the design philosophy of CJ (and Hovland's wonderful HP-100 too) in not keeping non-selected inputs shorted to ground as they believe the preamp sounds better this way. As a result in general you will find their preamps do a bit of pops between inputs. Maybe in your case it's extreme due to static?
Keep us posted of what your dealer found. But his pointing to ground loop without examining further did concern me a bit.
Ehien
I love the quality of sound that the 17LS helps my system achieve. However, I too have had problems with it when switching the EPL, activating the MUTE, and sometimes even with the volume. I've had the preamp blow a fuse in my amplifier's right channel about 10 or more times! Fortunately no damage to my speakers yet.I've found that the unit is prone to static shocks when I touch it and this has also caused my amp to blow the right channel fuse.
I thought it might be a flaw in the amp (upgraded McCormack DNA-1), but I am not certain.
Funny how my crappy old Harmon Kardon integrated never had any problems. (It also doesn't sound nearly as good.)
Hi Dorwin,Have you e-mailed c-j about your trouble? The 17LS chassis is grounded, therefore no static should be heard. Pay attention, as repetitive zip may kill the microcontroller inside the preamp. YB
Tell them the brand of your amp, they are now in the same familly.
Regards,
Daniel Trudeau
I'm talking about static electricity - not static sound. I can see the static spark when my finger touches the metal button on the 17LS. Static electricity is especially bad in the dry Colorado. Using a humidifier in the room helps some.
Dorwin,I understanded, from your post, that the fuse blowed when you touched the preamp?! This is totally abnormal, as the static current should be drain-out before entering the preamp circuit and find a path to the amp, regardless of where you live.
Regards,
Daniel Trudeau
I agree - it is very abnormal. But it has happened several times. I've tried replacing and swapping my speaker cables, ICs, and IECs. The strange thing is that it has never blown the left channel fuse in the amp.
Hi Guys,Interesting thread.
Dorwin, I'm sorry about your problems with the 17LS (both out of genuine altruistic sympathy and out of selfish fear of a similar relationship)!
I emailed CJ yesterday, and a service rep, Jeff, already called me today. His initial recommendations for me are as follows:
1. Test the KLF 20s to see if they are in fact blown by hooking them up to the Rotel amp. He suspects they may be fine.
2. Check the rail fuses on the MF2250 power amp, which are customer accessible on the back of the unit. He suspects they have blown and are causing the speakers to sound as though they were blown.
3. Check the 17LS for any harm/malfunction.
4. Figure out what happened to try to avoid a repeat.
A service tech from Spearit Sound, my dealer in Brookline, MA, is coming by my apartment tomorrow -- nice service. So I'll see what he finds and report to you.
Dorwin -- I think eagle1's suggestion of calling or emailing CJ is a good idea. They may have some suggestions, and your unit may have some malfunction or defect they could address.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I'll keep you posted.
Hi Josh:Sorry to hear about your problem. This is supposed to be an enjoyable and relaxing hobby, not one to cause stress.
I'll throw something out here and I may be really out in the weeds so take it in that context. Years back, C-J and the audio journals had an ongoing pissing contest over C-J's design philosophy of how they handled the switching of sources and tape monitor in/outs. The results were loud blasts being passed down the line to the amp and speakers when sources were switched or the tape monitor was engaged without first turning down the gain knob. C-J stated that this might be the case but it was an acceptable compromise for greater sonic purity.
Just food for thought.
Steve
Odd occurance, to say the least.The ground loop idea put forward by your dealer is a tad far-fetched IMO. It's become a habit of HIFI dealers to assign blame to the local cable folks for just about anything...very often, well deserved blame I might add.
I can't claim familiarity with the CJ pre, but I don't understand how multiple grounds [if they indeed exist in your system] could cause the problem. You didn't remove a componet from the chain...you just changed inputs/sources. That action shouldn't lift or engage any ground[s]. If you reached around back and yanked out a cable or two, that could...but you just pressed a button on the remote.
The accident occured when switching from unity gain [the loop] back to the regular active line amplification mode. Since the bang occured in both channels, I'd doubt you had a failure in the actual amplification circuit...if a tube, cap or resistor failed there, it is highly likely that only one channel would be effected. I'd concentrate my efforts on the EPL switching mechanism, the solid-state automated attenuator [volume control], and the powersupply. The powersupply is a long shot, but it's on of the few things in a modern high end preamp that is common to both channels.
It's nice to hear your dealer is comming over, rather than making you lug the gear back to him. Sound's like a fairly responsive dealer. I, however, would not hesitate to call CJ if the dealer dosen't do something you think he should. I have no idea what their customer service is like, but I'd definatly give them a crack at a soloution too.
:-)
Steve
if you have a ss amp you might have passed dc offset thru amp to speakers. probably nothing inheirently wrong with the pre-amp. this potential is fairly well known and is a potential problem for people with ss amps that can pass a dc signal. it is possible that a tube in the preamp could have created the signal in the first place but thats not cj's problem.
The dealer doubts it could be a faulty tube, since both channels blew at the same time. Thinks it might be caused by the cable TV.
Josh,Sounds like you had some kind of power surge or like someone else said a static discharge. I would try another power amp. It sounds like the internal output fuses of the C-J amp have been blown. If you are a bid handy you could remove the cover and visually inspect the fuses or use a meter. Make sure you replace the fuses with the correct value. I would be cautious, however, this is not anything I have ever heard of. You may want to take all your equipment to a certified tech and have it all checked.
Hope this helps.
Johnny
josh, i'm not familar with this amp. does it have a wide bandwidth?(for example 0 to 200000hz). does the amp have protection circuitry to keep it from passing dc to the speakers? if it is and if it does, and your speakers were damaged this dc protection circuit may have failed. best do a thorough inquiry into this as a repeat experience is very possible.
nt
Does the event amuse you, or my wanting the dealer or CJ to pay for the repair?In any event, any suggestions as to what might have caused the problem? The dealer is coming by tonight to investigate, but thinks the problem is a ground loop caused by the cable TV.
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