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Hi, Has anyone had the opportunity to compare these amplifiers? as much as I would like to own the Prem 12 monoblocks. I just think the sound quality of the 11a as others have described it being lush. I foreget where I read this but said the more power an amp produces the less magic it will have. But really if I was to go with the Premier 12's how much difference will ther be? I want the 12's so they can drive Maggie 3.6's. thanks/ Barry
Jimpap got it correct. The 12 on paper is like 11a x 2 but they actually sound more powerful than that! The 12 bass is tauter and punchier, and overall it sounds leaner and more immediate and more dynamic than the 11a. The 11a is more laidback and relaxed sounding, with a warmer fuller midrange with a slightly underdamped bass.Of course the impt. question is: are they really that radically different? I dont think so, the 11 and 12 are basically made from the same circuits (the 12 just have double the tubes, double the power reservoir and double/bigger transformers) and not surprisingly: still sound more alike than different, especially compared to other brands. Another way to put it is a lean sounding CJ still sounds a whole lot richer and warmer than a typical amplifier. :-) And if you really desire both the 11a's lushness and 12's power and speed - the 8a got both - and a lot more but they're gonna cost ya.
Hi Hyperion,Thanks for sharing. When you say > CJ still sounds a whole lot richer and warmer than a typical amplifier. < This means you have made comparisons with other amps. May I ask which one's? I'm looking into Cary, Quicksilver, VTL and a few more as well. But I have always liked Conrad Johnson products though I don't know why? I had the chance to own a PV10AL and enjoyed it for the time I had it.
Thanks Barry
I havent heard many Cary amps but the ones I did happen to sound even lusher than CJ in the mids but they happen to sound mushier and less articulate in the bass too. Only heard one quicksilver amp. With KT88 tubes, it sounded sweeter, darker and richer than CJ but also a lot less detailed, slower and undynamic. I havent heard the newest VTL but the older ones sounded a bit raw and unrefined to me, and I dont remember them sounding warm at all, altho not as lean as Audio Research stuff. I do remember the VTLs as having tight powerful bass though. (but Mike Fremer in his review of the CJ Premier 12 did note that the 12 has a tighter bass than the VTL MB450)
Hyperion,Thanks fer the opinions on these amps. It seems CJ is promising! As much as I prefer lush mids I couldn't sacrifice clarity in exchange.
I'm hoping to be able to audition before puchase to make certain.Thanks again, Barry
First, i would never recommend investing in either amp without auditioning.Having said that, i always wondered whether the midrange "fatness" i enjoyed so much with the 11a was somehow connected to the relatively "sloppy" bottom produced through the B&W 802s. Another words, i always had the suspicion that the "fat" midrange was related to the "tubby" bottom--somehow the bottom crept into the midrange to fatten it up a bit. I noticed this with different wires too. To the extent that this is true, i suppose an 11a driving more efficient speakers might perhaps lose a bit of the "magic." Any thoughts?
No, the fat midrange is not related to the slightly loose bottom end at all. The midrange remains as is regardless of speakers (but it can be tuned/tweaked not to sound like that) but the 11a's bass performance is very speaker dependent, it doesnt like big woofers and doesnt like underdamped bass designs especially if these characteristics are coupled with 4 ohm loads. OTOH, speakers with inherently articulate and well controlled bass, this looseness doenst happen at all. I suspect it wont sound loose with Maggies at all although I suspect it might be a bit underpowered for the big Maggies like the 3.6Of course, all things being equal, esp the speakers - the 12 will always have a tighter and more powerful bass, and a livelier more dynamic and immediate sound than the 11a, and the 11a will always have the fuller creamier midrange and the more laidback presentation. It is interesting (but not at all surprising) to note though that the 8a combines both salient traits of the 11 and 12 while having deeper bass and bigger grander more effortless sound than both.
Just a thought probly due to the limited power of the 11a's to drive your speaker's properly was the result of the fatness.Now as for > > > i suppose an 11a driving more efficient speakers might perhaps lose a bit of the "magic." Any thoughts? < < <
I would like to find the answer to that as well... But as I've said based on what I hear the more power the less magic. but may not always be true.
Thanks again Barry
Barry, you raise an issue that i can thoroughly relate to. I auditioned EXTENSIVELY the 11a and 12 monoblocks about 3 years ago. I ultimately purchased the 12s to drive B&W 802s. But i've got to tell you, when people say the 11a amp lush, that is no hype! With the tweleves, you definitely gain in separation and bottom (the latter due to grater power), but you lose some VERY IMPORTANT magic! The 12s are "faster" than the 11a. The 11a produces a slightly (but perceptually significant--i.e., more enjoyable to my ears) fatter midrange. Bass is a bit too loose and uncontrolled (in my system).Despite this loss in "sweetness", I do love the 12's. But i do miss the "magic" of the 11a amp. With my setup (particularly the 802s), the 11a just didn't make sense.
I recently replaced my Premier 10 preamp with the cj Premier 17sl. This did replace a bit of the magic.
If your speakers are sufficiently efficient, go for the 11a.
Hi jimpap,Thanks for your input. This is something I really need to consider thinking about. I really want that fat! midrange as you mentioned I would rather go whith the 11a's which will be much cheaper but I doubt that they will pleasingly drive my maggie's. I just wish I had a dealer near me.
Thanks Barry
try Galen Carol. I believe he carries CJ and will let you audition in your home for a week. All you'll be out is shipping if you decide to return.
.
www.gcaudio.com. Doesn't look like he carries CJ anymore. Sorry. You might call him anyway, just to be sure.
You won't get the best bass and dynamics out of the Maggies with P11a but the setup will sound beautifully.
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