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I just bought a Rogue Audio RP-5 preamplifier and purchased what I understand to be two matched pairs of NOS Mullard 12au7 tubes to replace the stock JJs. I bought them together through my local audio dealer. The tubes were sourced from Brent Jesse Recording Supply, who I understand is excellent, and I trust my local dealer who has been great over the years. But I am confused by the designations on the boxes of one of the matched pairs.I have posted two pictures of the same boxes below so you can read each box right-side-up. As you can see, both boxes list the Manufacturer as Mullard and the Tube Type as 12au7. But one lists the Brand as Bugle Boy (which I thought was an Amprex tube?) and the other as something I cannot read but looks like Welscon (?). Also, one box says 1958 LP for Production Type and the other looks like Halo Getter 1958 LP. Unlike the other matched pair, they also have different inspections dates.
The boxes for the other matched pair, which are not pictured, just say Mullard for both Manufacturer and Brand and 1958 LP for both Production types and have the same inspection date.
It seemed to me that maybe there was a mistake in putting these two together before shipping since they seem to be different brands, production types and inspection dates, but my dealer doesn't think so and said Mullard made a lot of 12au7s for different brands. But would they still be considered a matched pair for a preamp? Because he pre-installed them for me (at my request - I have a physical disability), and the preamp is now in a shelf courtesy of my lovely wife, I've not opened the case to inspect the actual tubes yet. Could anyone help explain this for me? Thanks in advance!
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Edits: 06/14/17 06/14/17Follow Ups:
"Mullard made a lot of 12au7s for different brands"This might be a little off topic but Mullard is a brand.
Philips owned a bunch of the plants back in the day and if they decided that some of the tubes made in their Blackburn plant in England should be branded "Bulge Boy" there was no one to stop them.
For clarity I should say that Mullard was a company of it's own way back in the 20's but they were bought out by Philips in 1927 and became one of many brands/plants owned and operated by Philips.
The tubes made in the Philips plant in Blackburn England are mostly labeled Mullard but not always.
Bulge Boy tubes where usually made in Holland but not always.
Here's my over riding point, any tube made in any of the Philips owned plants could bear any brand name owned by Philips.
The etched codes on the tube will tell you which plant the tube was made in, not the branding.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 06/16/17 06/16/17 06/16/17
For old tubes like long plate 12ax7, au7, Mullard or Amperex. Their rarity makes obtaining a matching pair that has brand, date code and test results all lining up is like have an eclipse of the sun. it happened somewhere but maybe not in your neck of the woods. Brent Jesse, has been selling tubes for a very long time and that is a positive so you pretty much can count on his expertise and reputation. Like Peter said, if you get the date codes it will let you know the exact type and date of the 2 tubes.
The only reason I haven't yet is that they were already installed in the PR-5 by the dealer at my request, and the preamp is now in a shelf. It's 30 pounds and I use a wheelchair, so it'll have to wait until a friend comes over. My wife is awesome, and put it in the shelf and hooked it up patiently with my instructions, but she's just not up for disconnecting it, pulling it out, unscrewing the 10 cover screws and then reversing the process. I can't blame her! ;-)
But thanks so much for your advice. I will see if a friend can come over and look at the tubes and post what I find (and ask any remaining questions). I've wanted to adjust the cartridge loading separately, so planned on pulling it anyway.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Here's a link to info that'll help you decipher the codes once you know what they are.
.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Best of luck unhooking the rig. Give your wife a kiss on the cheek for being so nice (and also for letting you indulge in your audio madness). Also you should ask about the tube rings and the vibrations you were concerned about.
I'm not so much concerned as just curious, but maybe I'll try to order some first. Thanks.
And yes, my wife is amazing. I can't believe she puts up with this hobby, let alone me generally! ;-)
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
The Philips Electronics conglomerate owned several brand names. Amperex and Mullard were among the many brands Philips owned. Point is the name on the tube means very little to nothing. As Peter pointed out, the real story is in the acid etched codes along the bottom shoulder of the tube. Those codes will tell you the what, when and where of each tube.
NOS? Looks like UOS (used old stock) in white boxes.
Just because a tube tests with new or near new readings, doesn't make it new old stock.
New Old Stock is new, unused, in the original box.
I can't compete with the dead (Buck W. 2010)
$45 gets them out the door tomorrow. $50 gets them out the door yesterday (Byrd 2016)
Cowards can't be heroes. (Byrd 2017)
They were sold to me as NOS by a dealer with an excellent reputation, whom I trust, and he sourced from Brent Jesse, who's reputation is exemplary. On his website, Brent Jesse says that many of his NOS tubes are in white boxes because the original packaging had deteriorated, but that if they are sold as NOS, they are NOS.
Why do you say they look used?
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
I just question if they are truly NOS. Just as someone might question them being matched. Occasionally, I too sell a NOS tube outside of it's original box, and point out the original box could not be salvaged (gross mold). That is very rare. Dilapitated or not, NOS tubes should stay in and go with their original box. That's not too much to ask.
I can't compete with the dead (Buck W. 2010)
$45 gets them out the door tomorrow. $50 gets them out the door yesterday (Byrd 2016)
Cowards can't be heroes. (Byrd 2017)
What about tubes purchased in bulk? I've bought plenty of tubes packaged in egg-crate type boxes that were intended for use in production where individual boxes were both unnecessary and unwanted.Who says the box the tube is in now is the original one it was packaged in?
Who says the tube in that old tired box wasn't used for a few hours then put back in the box?
And so on...
We've had this discussion here so MANY times before. The conclusion reached is that unless you had the tube in your possession from the time it left the factory until today there is no absolute assurance it is new and unused. Period.
Get the tubes from a trustworthy source. That's all you can do. If you have a question about the tube ask the seller. Some of the answers you get will have to be judgment calls - so the knowledge/experience and ethics of the seller are important in the process.
I am a tube seller - and I have NEVER sold a tube that I can be 100% sure was brand new. Since I've never taken delivery of tubes directly from a tube plant I can't be 100% sure. I have sold tubes that in my best judgment were NOS however. And I'm sure I'm not the only tube seller to do so.
Edits: 06/15/17
By definition, labeling an item as "new" also means it was never previously sold to an end user. End user in this case would include TV/radio service persons, broadcast stations, etc. Regardless of whether such a tube has been put into service, it is legally used merchandise.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
FWIW, here is what he says under Q&A on his site:
"Q:
ARE ALL OF YOUR TUBES NEW?
A:
Most of them are. On my audiophile tube list, it states directly if a tube is NOS or used. Most of my regular stock list are "NOS" or New Old Stock, meaning the tubes themselves are old, discontinued, and/or obsolete. Ninety five percent of my tubes are over 30 years old, so they may not always look "new", and may not be in a new looking box. Many boxes have not survived the years, and I will supply the tubes in clean white boxes. Some of my tubes were obtained in jobbers boxes, which are egg carton type boxes or styrofoam crates. While these are NOS tubes, they never had a box of their own. I have also bought tube caddies full of tubes. It was a common practice to recycle the boxes in tube caddies, and refill them with tubes from bulk jobbers boxes. While these tubes are also NOS, the tube box may be worn and have the tube number hand written on it, with the original type number crossed off. I will try to send you a tube with a good label in a good box, but with high demand tubes, this may not always be possible. This is because all of my tubes are vintage. I do not sell recently made Chinese or Russian tubes, which may look newer and have a new box, but typically do not perform as well as vintage tubes. The big exception here is antique or "two digit" tubes. These are all over 60 years old, and it is nearly impossible to tell if a tube has ever been powered up in a circuit before. These tubes, like all of my others, are tested as NOS. I test every tube I sell, and these must test as new or I will not sell it as such. All of my tubes, even those I sell as used, carry my 30 day satisfaction guarantee."
Under NOS Mullard 12au7s, much of what he lists specifically says "White Box".
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
"It was a common practice to recycle the boxes in tube caddies, and refill them with tubes from bulk jobbers boxes."
It was also common practice to put the used tube from the radio/TV into the box in the caddy after replacing it. Sometimes the box got marked, sometimes not.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
It was also common practice to put good used tubes from equipment into boxes after they needlessly replaced one.
That brand is Webcor. If they are long plate you can expect superb tubes and corresponding sound. The construction may match exactly, regardless of labelling. Etched codes at the base of the tubes would be final evidence of their origin.
Edits: 06/15/17
Do you have photos of the two "matched pair" tubes in question?
Thanks!
Edits: 06/15/17
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