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Can you guess what they are? No,it isn't a new production one even tho those are pretty decent from what I've heard.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Follow Ups:
Brimar CV1988 and TungSol Round Plates
Nt
I find that the 1952 BB, a little top heavy. The upper mids can be a bit hard.
iBasso DX100,DX50 DX90. Chord Hugo. HiFiman 901s balanced. RSA Intruder, The Lightning. Fostex TH900 balanced, HE1000, HE-6, 560, 500, JH13 Pro balanced. Lyr2, Audeze. Balanced mostly with Whiplash cables. Photo gallery: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Most likely you weren't using the Herbies tube dampers.
Here is my favorite. Every friend who has tried these has said they are the best they ever heard
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6sn7-5692-cv1988-vt-231-6n8-6h8/early-russian-6h8c-6sn7/
Alan
Is this The Lost Tube of Lyonesse? I can only compare it to some new production Tung Sol that sound okay on their own but harsh in the treble side by side.
6SN7GTB on the glass, RCA Electron Radio Tube on the base, along with code JBR. The plates look more black than grey.
All I really care about is my 76 line stage makes music with these as output tubes.
It's been my experience that standard RCAs like that one are the worst in terms of internal matching and variations from tube to tube. "Chrome dome" Sylvanias from that era are much better in this regard. I'm only referring to basic characteristics here, not sonics.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I went through all the tubes everyone mentioned in listening tests over many weeks, using my Cary preamp as the 6sn7 test bed. It is a simple and good linestage preamp with upgraded parts to maximize its sonics. And after going thru the best samples from my collection of hundreds of 6sn7 types I felt that the most neutral sounding tube should be declared the winner. My reasoning was that if a tube highlighted some aspect of the recording in terms of better bass or better mids or treble, that should be considered a frequency anomaly, which is not what one wants in their amplification device. Consideration was given to dynamics, soundstage, and frequency response, and balance between all those points given the highest regard. And after going thru at least 25 pairs of various 6sn7 types and brands, in my system the RCA RED BASE 5692 was the winner at that time.
I second that motion, I have a Rogue Audio 99 Super Magnum with a Quad Match set of RCA Red Base 5692. The best by far. I tried a lot of 6SN7 tubes my friend has a collection of about 11,000 tubes, of all types and lots and lots of 6SN7 tubes. The REd BAs RCA are just phenomenal. They are so good that he promise me a second Quad Set to have it as spares just in case. I do not think I will be happy with any other 6SN7 that is out there. RCA RED BASE 5692 FOR LIFE. Oh and NOS Telefunkens 12AX7 / 12AT7 for my Ares Phono Preamp. the combination of those tubes is amazing togheter.
Who needs "enhancement pills"? I just say that 5 times and Katie bar the door!
No seriously, if Uncle Sammy could get any 6sn7 that money could buy and the 5692 was ordered, who am to argue? Of course, that tube was not developed with audiophiles in mind, but, it is probably the best constructed 6sn7. So, non microphonic solid design, unbeatable construction, unbelievable quality control, 10,000 hour life span, and a very neutral sound presentation. Hard to beat qualities in a tube.
Dak
It's funny you say that because I like the red base 5692s as well.I put it as a close second in my setups so again,synergy is everything.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Those do it for me in every application.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
..but I can understand those whose preferences align with TS :)My tastes run more with National Union Grey glass 6SN7 type of sound, which of course will not work in "all" applications or systems, but once it goes into a sympathetic system, man it's sweet!
Edits: 10/02/16
for the benefit of those who are not that familiar with 6SN7s or are looking to pick up some good ones. First the Sylvanias, despite Jeffery,s comments I love Sylvania 6SN7s and think they are all at least good.
From left to right (best to good)
Sylvania 6SN7W made for the navy, 1952 three hole plate "badboys" 6sn7GT, Sylvania VT-231, early bottom getter 2hole plate 6SN7GT, brown base 6sn7WGT, and early heavy top getter 6sn7GTA.
Some more of the best 6SN7s:
National Union black glass (never had the pleasure of collecting the grey glass), Raytheon 6SN7WGT, RCA 5692, Russian hole plate 1578, Tung Sol "mouse ears", and RCA VT-231.
A few from my collection.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
in your photo, as well as some others like the metal base versions.
Years ago, when TS roundplates weren't as expensive, I once traded some of my TS roundplates for more Sylvania VT231's, purely on sonic preference alone, so you know I like my Sylvania sound :)
Unfortunately, the few I had were microphonic.
8^(
Ever since I started searching for the best-sounding 6SN7GTs, when I owned Antique Sound Lab Hurricanes, I quit looking when I found the TSRPs*. Indeed some are highly microfonic, but enough that I've bought are not, and I've kept most of them.
I currently use six in my Atma-Sphere M60 Mk.3.3s...
(but I now use a A-S plug and not a tube in the center-rear socket)
...and, lucky me, I have an even dozen in reserve.
Actually, I'm not lucky, I'm simply willing to pay the c. $100-each prices on eBay to get the good ones. Here's the most-recent quad I bought...
They didn't look nearly this good when they arrived, and they averaged about $70 each IIRC.
* FWIW, my 2nd-favorite 'N7 is the Ken-Rad VT-231.
----------
Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
you don't really notice it so much in an amp as you would a preamp with the higher amplification factor.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
Jeff
The Atmasphere amps are really a testament to how superb the tubes are because those amps are extremely revealing.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Guys,How would you rank these tubes:?
Sylvania 6SN7W
Sylvania VT 231
Sylvania WGTA
Sylvania GTB
Ked Rad
RCA 5692Thanks,
Wig
Edits: 09/30/16
...and my memory isn't very long, but:
1. I never found any of the about-million variations of the Sylvanias to sound particular good to me, but maybe I just never had any of the really good ones; same goes for the few Raytheons and RCAs I heard;
2. Didn't try any 5692s; and
3. The Ken-Rad VT-231 was my 2nd-favorite of any. It's close to the TSRP, overall, but lacked a touch of the richness of the TSRP that I think helps make them sound more like music than other tubes do.
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Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
And how does it compare to the TS Black Glass, Round Plate?
I own and love vintage dark glass TS round plate and the outstanding Sylvania metal base 6SN7.
Vintage preamp grade matched tubes are expensive and hard to find.
Last year I bought a pair of Psvane CV181 Tll. Wonderful sounding tube. After replacing ether of my vintage pairs with the Psvane I am happy to leave them in. Grant Fidelity provides high quality matched quiet pairs.
The Shuguang and Psvane CV-181's better many old production 6SN7's.
TS round plate is like rare wine...not worth it unless you have a cellar full to enjoy.
At least with the lid on which is a requirement for noise.
I'll likely see Rachel at RMAF this weekend anyway and will say hi!!
in my Audio Note Kageki amps. They deliver a rich tonal palette without sounding mushy and slow. I also found French Neotron round plates that look a lot like the Tungsol (don't know if they are re-branded tubes) and sound very good as well.
:^)
early 2000's, and though I had no gear that actually USED 6SN7's, I managed to find a half dozen or so NOS-NIB TungSol Black Glass Round Plate 6SN7's at a local Salt Lake City electronic supply house.For cheap ($5-10 each IIRC).
Now I have a tube line stage that uses one 6SN7 per channel so I am likely set for life (what's left of it).
Edits: 09/28/16
I've only heard the RP TS 6SN7 through one unit. A Moore designed Luminescence pre-amp. The unit sounded very good --- so hard to tell if the 6SN7 made much of a difference.
Steve
They make a difference.They undeniably make a difference.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I can't think of a Tungsol or Raytheon tube that I've not liked. Only the ones that test poorly or are noisy.
For those that haven't seen one live:
Edits: 09/29/16 09/29/16
Why is it in this hobby that the parts that are hard to get/rarely seen/extremely expensive/few ever made/difficult to use nearly always sound best? Anyone ever notice this? It's almost never the parts that were made in huge quantities or are being reissued - even by highly competent and qualified manufacturers - that will get you to sonic nirvana. :)
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
It's pure B.S. and often perpetrated by those with stock to sell. A lot of that went on here in the past.
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Rare is often equated with good, but not necessarily in tubes.
My favoured Sylvania 6SN7Ws were made in vast quantities, for example, but are hoarded because they sound so good. Ditto for Mullard, Amperex and Telefunkin 12ax7s that were produced in mass quantities and are not rare even today, but command high prices due to their high quality. I have never delt with any tube reseller who did not have several of these tubes. and they were always at a premium to other (U.S. Made) 12ax7s.
A couple of the best 6SN7s not yet mentioned are the Russian hole plate 1578 IF you can get a quiet matched pair and that takes some some effort, and the Raytheon 6SN7WGT brown base which I prefer to either types of the earlier Raytheon VT-231.
Below the tubes mentioned so far in this thread, my favourites are the Tung Sol GTB tallboys, Sylvania bottom getter two hole plate GTs and early chrome top WGTs and GTAs, the early Hytron tall bottles and early GE GTAs. Good tubes and still available for similar money as reissues.
Enjoy the Roll!
I like these. They last forever, ever in harsh environments. Like inside Ampeg amps.I like the RCA red base 5692 for same reason.
8^)
Edits: 09/29/16
I think there is some magic in the round plate designs.Never had any 6SN7 round plates, but my SET amp uses 6J5 for front-end tubes, basically 1/2 of a 6SN7.
I've tried many types, and keep going back to the ST version (6J5G)with round plates.
Later 6J5GT had flat plates like some 6SN7's. They sound OK, too, but the round plates won the audition. Fortunately for me, they're not that rare.
Edits: 09/29/16
The more obscure, the higher the desire. Human nature.
I remember that fine blonde in HS... But, I digress.
8^)
nt
Where do you find good round plate TS, these days? Most online are half-way used up. Or noisy as Hades.Thanks!
Edits: 09/28/16
TSRP 6F8Gs are another option. Either with an adapter or rewired socket for grid cap. The 6F8G, at least in the recent past, seemed to come up for sale more often than their cap-less brothers. I have not looked for some time, so the may all be bought up too, but worth consideration if you cannot find TSRP 6SN7s.
Good question Stevie. The only way I know of is on Ebay.Even the ones that check less than stellar,perform exceptionally well in amplifiers.Preamps are another story.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I have not taken note your 6SN7 comments over the years, but I would like to know what your favorite is. For me, two 76s are a really good 6SN7, as well as 2 coke bottle 6J5s.
Hytron early 50's brown bases. Tonal balance like an RCA red base combined with the airiness of the later CBS.
are mine.
All that follows is of course IMHO.
I really like the Sylvania Ws and the earliest GTs which look a lot like a W with its extensive gettering. Note also some of those Ws with the A designation on top of the dome . I had read that the A tubes were early.
I own a 4 pairs of TS round plates, 2 pairs sound great, but 2 don't, despite testing quite well. Granted I paid a lot for one NOS NIB pair, the rest more were bought more than a decade ago, at what are now very low prices.
Still I find the Ws possess a super, clean, top end and truly beautiful midrange, combining to result an overall imaging ability like no other. The areas where the TS are clearly superior are dynamics or slam, and bigger better bass.
I have so many nice 6SN7s, I am sorry my current headphone amp doesn't benefit as much from using them. Fortunately other pieces I own are exquisitely sensitive.
I have one TSRP that Jeffrey sold me some years ago. I use it as a driver sometimes in a preamp. But it's a cathode follower and the tubes don't really matter in the first position, or at least that's what I hear. Otherwise, where it does matter, I generally use for drivers in 2 other amps:
1. Raytheon 6SN7GT T Plate (or flat plate with brass support rods)
2. TS or NU 6F8G
3. Bad Boy
4. 7N7 (GT model)
5. 6SN7W
not in any particular order.
@ Frihed or M..,
Along the way I have acquired quite a few Raytheons but can't seem to find the "T" plate variety or Brass post. I have been looking at the GTs and 231s. When I did buy some, I thought the Ladder plate was preferred, but my memory is anything but lucid. Do you have a picture or reference to a picture? Thanks,
The two varieties of Raytheon VT-231.
Left T-plate copper post which I believe is the earlier. Right, ladder plate double support rods, labeled for Tung Sol.
I have not tried them in awhile, but I think I prefer the ladder plate tubes in my amp.
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
That is my favorite at the moment. Need to get more eggs at Costco for another tube holder. My preamp uses a single 6sn7.
33S30?
"If you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." Timothy Leary
That's just a WAG. I've been pretty impressed over the years with some of the Japanese offerings - EF86, 12AX7, 6BQ5 etc.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
...one of these?
"I can't compete with the dead" (Buck W. 2010)
"$45 gets them out the door tomorrow. $50 gets them out the door yesterday" (Byrd 2016)
There you go again wasting money on white boxes for tubes..Just throw em all in the bathtub or refrigerator like I do and that way you can cryo treat at the same time..See how it works? LOL
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
5692 RCA red base????
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
I like the ones with loose bases and flakes of mica or glass chips bouncing around the envelope. Crooked guts are are a must.
"I can't compete with the dead" (Buck W. 2010)
"$45 gets them out the door tomorrow. $50 gets them out the door yesterday" (Byrd 2016)
This one just sold for $97
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Everyone seems to love the Tung Sol roundplates.
I have never seen them at a hamfest or at any of the out of the way tube dealers I have met through them. I refuse to pay the $150 or $200 bucks each to try them. The price of premium NOS 6SN7s has gone through the roof in the last 10 years.
For driver tubes, I love the short bottle Sylvania 6SN7W. These can still be found for under $100 each as millions were made for the military. Up until about 5 years ago I was getting them for as low as $40 a tube and bargains can still be found. Almost the equal of the tall bottle metal based Ws that go for roundplate prices.
The 52s are nice, but not as clean as the Ws as drivers in my amp. The NUs are great but finding good quality pairs is becoming difficult. The RCA VT-231 are nice sounding but just too coloured IMO. Ditto the RCA 5692. The mouse ears Tung Sols are nice but have less punch and top end sparkle then the best Sylvanias in my amp.
Love talking about 6SN7s (can't you tell?) my favorite tube to collect (and roll)!
This thread reminds me I have a pile of 6SN7s to part with someday soon. I no longer have any gear that uses them, and had hoarded quite a few nice pairs back when I did. The TSRP and Sylvania Metal base were among my favorites at the time, though in general all the 6SN7s mentioned here so far have good sound and their own charm in several ways. Hard to go wrong with vintage 6SN7s in general.
And looks at the internal structure of a well regarded 6SN7 they can find them rebranded as a no-name or less regarded brand for much much lower prices. They may even have a few in their junk box.
I think the bottom getter Sylvania GT some with the Mil. Part No. VT231 is a very good tube. The 1952 tube AKA the Bad Boy is even better, but don't limit yourself to only 1952. Some 51s and 53s are the same construction as the Bad BOy, better said perhaps as the 3 rivet or 3 hole plate. Brent Jesse tells his customers that the 3 hole plate tubes are not better than the more common 2 hole. Last I looked at his 6SN7s for sale commentary. I disagree given the sound firstly and backed up by physical differences seen in the comparison of the two after a careful dissection.
I have pre CBS Hytron, don't recall brown bases.
The 5962 was mentioned thought to be all from a single source despite labels, red or brown base. I know the red, too soft for me as is the Grey glass NU also Mentioned. I keep some examples for myself. The Ken Rad is easily the bassiest 6SN7 except perhaps the TS RP which is more well balanced sophisticated all around. The 33S30 is a legend that few have heard. Even the British B-65 as rare and reportedly special sounding as it is, still shows up for sale here and there.
One reason these prices are increasing is not just the ever dwindling supply but also an increased demand. Circumstances have forced me to use headphones (HP) lately. The good news is the HP listeners are in a general and broad way the interest of a younger generation and a good fraction are "Philes". When they hear that one tube is the more exclusive one they appear to be dead set on having the. Instant sophistication?? Well if even a small fraction of the braggadocio I read on those forums is true, then there really is a new demand. It is not for RCA graphites or greys, but TS RPs yes.
Finally, I notice all have been restrained in not mentioning ECC32s or ECC33s.
Tung sol 6sn7 GT round plates
'52 Syls, and NU grays
Tung Sol round plate.
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