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In Reply to: Doctor Doctor give me the news...I got a bad case of noisy tubes posted by AAG on August 30, 2006 at 16:36:23:
Well AAG, I certainly stand corrected.Didn't even take three months for one of the Philips to go bad. Try three weeks, which is rather unfortunate since they were a tad expensive.
I was just on the Upscale Audio site and read Kevin's current recommendations. Never even thought to look at the 6H23's.
What are you using in your Modulus?
Thanks for setting me straight and saving me some money.
Follow Ups:
It's a lesson hard learned and I feel your pain as I went through the very same thing.I love AI, but these newer ones run hot and hard.
I tried to push those Tungsram and had high hopes for them given that some other users seemed to be fairing well...but alas...was not to be and based upon my experience I cannot recommend them as it ain't a cheap gamble.
If you really want to experiment with NOS I would try some of the JAN variants as they probably stand the best chance of survival and they are comparatively cheap and plentiful. The JAN Phillips were, to my tastes/system, a bit forward and hard and a bit flat. But I like to err on the warmer side of things. And who knows, maybe you might luck into something that clicks with your system/tastes - JAN Sylvania might be worth a whirl.
Sovtek would also survive, but some folks have bright/forward issues with them and I tend to agree...but this might vary on production era and I hate to be unfair here as I have not recently purchased any. Still only about $10/tube though...and built like a tank. That's what AI uses...FWIW.
Both the Electro-Harmonix and the 6H23N-EB's are good but different in their presenation.
EH is a bit mellower and laid back - all around smoothest option of those mentioned here. It's what I am currently using and I don't feel like I am missing out on anything. Given your preferences I would hazzard a guess that it's what you will end up with as well. I just hope the Russian mafia doesn't muck things up on these...
The 6H23N-EB has more apparent detail, but is also a bit thinner sounding...not washed out or weak, just more treble energy that really jumps out at you...not in a harsh or brash way...just tends to emphasize the leading edges at the expense of some midrange warmth. A good contrast to the EH.
All said and done you could probably buy all of them and roll them to see which you like best and still end up spending less than what you would pay for those Phillips as JAN's are cheap and the new I mentioned are safe and stable.
Well, that's my 2 cents...YMMV given system and tastes.
My reference source is a Sony 777ES SACD player with Vacuum State Electronics Level 5+ mod as well as the Kern transport mod. This is what "Positive Feedback Online" has to say about this 55 pound beast...."The overall tonal balance of the upgraded Level 5+ SCD-777 ES was more forward (as compared to a similarly modded Sony DVP-9000ES), with a very strong and full midrange with substantial presence. The slightly more forward and stronger presence quality of the Level 5+ model simply seems to very slightly emphasize the improved dynamics and detail apparent with the Level 5+ upgrade of the Sony SCD-777ES. Adding to or supporting these improvements is the notably solid bass foundation, offered, in part by the 777's heavy and relatively non-resonant construction. My guess is that all audiophiles would prefer the qualities found with the Level 5+ model. Music lovers might split just as they do when offered seating in a concert hall."
And there is the rub, how to move back a few rows in the concert hall and warm things up a skosh. Thankfully, you have provided me with what sounds like a promising path in that direction.
I have located (not too difficult) matched and balanced pairs of EH 6922 gold pins for about 60 bucks. I think I will give them a try.
Thanks so much for your invaluable input in my quest to improve the stock sound of the AI L2.
Dr. Roberts
P.S. Do you have any experience with rolling tubes in an E.A.R HP4?
I used to own an EAR HP4, and posted some tuberolling experiences on Head-Fi.org. A search there should turn them up. The HP4 is designed around the stock Sovtek 6SL7GT, which is a short-bottle tube. The older tall bottle 6SL7's won't fit under the cover. I wound up having someone build a new cover for mine so that I could use the taller tubes. That said, I noticed a disporportionate amount of wear on the output tubes when older NOS tubes were used. This was only apparent on some brands, and only on the output buffers. Gain tubes seemed to wear much better.
Thanks Hirsch. Have read your postings at Head-Fi, very informative. Just received a pair of Tung-sol VT 229's and have a pair of RCA 229's on order, both short bottle, for the inputs. Currently using a newer pair of Tung-sols for the outputs.
Hope things work out for you...Sorry I cannot help you on that EAR. But there are many many knowledgeable and experienced folks here. You might want to put up a new post looking for recommendations on that particular piece.
As far as taming some of the forwardness I don't know the rest of your system, but I would humbly offer a suggestion for you to look into room acoustic treatments as well if you have not already. While not a panacea, it helps out a great deal and is often overlooked. And a bright room can exacerbate a lively system. But I think that's because this runs smack into heart of the dreaded WAF more than other areas!
It's a production alright. Hauling the tube traps from the garage, setting them up for a listening session, and then storing them away the following morning until the next time. Been listening to headphones quite a bit lately. Not nearly the hassle. That is where the E.A.R comes in to play.Thanks again
Dr. Roberts
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