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Re: EL34's: VAC vs Svetlana

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In Reply to: Re: EL34's: VAC vs Svetlana posted by Dennis on January 26, 2000 at 16:23:33:

Golden Dragons are chinese tubes sent to England for sorting and matching - by the folks who used to work at Mullard. The are distributed exclusively by VAC.
Svets, JJ/Teslovak and Sovtek are all soviet/slavic brands.

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Re: EL34's: VAC vs Svetlana Sans Nom 08:10:10 01/27/00 (10)
No: Golden Dragons are "labelled" chinese tubes sorted in China with racks designed by PM Component. They do not sent them all the way to UK to have them sorted. For more info go to Shuguang factory in South-Eastern part of China and go check it out yourself.
Essentially GD tubes are nothing short of "relabelled" chinese tubes in general (Some from Hunan ex-mil tube factory, small signal tubes from "Peking" and "Shanghai" common grade/ex-mil grade tube factories, 845, 211 from Shuguang, 2A3 from Shuguang,EL-34 from Hunan, etc.) They sort and burn them in China, not UK....
Jacques.
- Are you sure? Scott 10:13:45 01/27/00 (9)
  The method I described is how GD has been describing themselves in magazine ads for several years..... do you really think they would risk the possiblity of litigation by lying? Also, Vac tests and re-label their own brand of tubes and will provide this service for any tube you care to send to them.
  I can understand some cynicism about relabeling but I think I am correct in this case.
  - Re: Are you sure? Les Lammers 20:58:23 01/27/00 (0)
    VAC goes through the standard production of a Chinese factory and tests the
    tubes. They keep the best and label them Golden Dragon. Read it in Stereophile.
  - Re: Are you sure? Sans Nom 11:00:14 01/27/00 (5)
    My partner was a sub-distributer of "fall-outs" from Shuguang's burning racks and those who failed or not classified sometimes go under the name "Sino" or "no name" brand of chinese stuff. Others who passed the grading test on the rack will be labelled as "GD". PMC has given up such business in the early-mid 90s perhaps due to the lack of huge interest in chinese tubes. Low profits perhaps? I would not know.
    As for the litigation part you'll be surprised what corporate practices would do for a penny these days: Relabelled Amperex "Bugle Boys" tubes from Richardson Electron tubes division, etc. PMC is just one of the company who "relabelled" chinese stuff and sell them for pennies.Afterall, PMC "claims" to have "introduced" their "expertise" into the chinese manufacturing facilities and assisting them during the development stage. Sorry I do not see things that way with "Shanghai" tube factory: their 12AX7 is nothing short of some chinese mil. small signal tube design which the original design can be traced all the way back to some Russian counterparts back in the 50s.
    Last but not least, GD doesn't carry any BVA logos on their tubes, unlike those foreign made Mullards in the 70s who still carrys the BVA logo.
    Jacques.
    - Thanks and a question for you..... Scott 11:29:19 01/27/00 (4)
      Thank you very much for your informative answer - as a newcomer to tubes I am aware of the need to question the claims made about NOS tubes but I didn't realize that the problems carried over to new stock as well. I do appreciate your help.
      One further question for you - do you know if Golden Dragons are the same as "Chinese Classic" or "Valve Art" tubes? They are all Chinese and look identical. I had heard that the "cheaper" versions may substitute inferior materials and/or not spec out as closely as the so-called "premium" gold dragons.
      Any additional input would be most appreciated!
      -Scott
      - I'll try my best to answer your question.. Sans Nom 11:45:29 01/27/00 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Thanks and a question for you..... posted by Scott on January 27, 2000 at 11:29:19:
        
        I'm not sure what you mean by "chinese classic" tubes but from what I know PMC's GD brand of tubes are "sourced" from many tube manufacturing facilities all over China, including the "Valve Art" brand manufacturing plant.
        Again depending on how you see it, the "chinese classic" or "no name" brand may be sourced from the same manufacturing plant but from those who failed the initial rack/grading test or with much higher discrepencies. Those who work well and satisfy the initial grading/rack burning test will be marketed as "Valve Art" brand or other brands as well.
        Knowing PMC buys whatever tubes they interested in from all over the place and label them GD I'm pretty sure what you see with essentially same internal/external structure and materials from the tubes are sourced from the same manufacturing facilities.
        The difference is in the grading process: GD's are almost the top 5~25% of the tubes from the burning rack where as others such as "classical chinese" or "no name" are the mid to lower 30% of the batch. I believe Valve Art ranges somewhere between the middle.
        I recalled that chinese entrepreneurs and Japanese busniessman made some sort of deal in collaboration with several chinese tube manufacturing facilties: they invest their money and in return they get a very stable tube supply at a reasonable cost with fairly high consistency and quality (again grading applies). CR and Valve Art are just some of these new "corporate entrepreneurship" that's working nicely under this blanket of Socialistic society.
        Jacques.
        p.s. PMC kept their sourcing schemes pretty much behind "closed doors" and only those who dealt with them knows about what's going on. That's why they don't tell you the whole story.
        
        Re: I'll try my best to answer your question.. Jack G 17:46:32 01/27/00 (1)
        
        In Reply to: I'll try my best to answer your question.. posted by Sans Nom on January 27, 2000 at 11:45:29:
        
        > > > The difference is in the grading process: GD's are almost the top 5~25% of the tubes from the burning rack where as others such as "classical chinese" or "no name" are the mid to lower 30% of the batch. I believe Valve Art ranges somewhere between the middle.
        < < <
        I'm not sure which tubes you are refering to here, but Valve art sells a line of 300B(and high powered variants) that are not available from generic sino brands or GD, such as the nickle anode 300B.
        Jack
        
        That's absolutely true Jack G! Sans Nom 09:19:11 01/28/00 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I'll try my best to answer your question.. posted by Jack G on January 27, 2000 at 17:46:32:
        
        I agreed. Perhaps PMC has no interest in these nickel and graphite anode 300B that valve art produced. Who knows?
        
        G'day!
        Jacques.
        
        Many, many thanks for the information my friend! (nt) Scott 14:43:47 01/27/00 (0)
        
        In Reply to: I'll try my best to answer your question.. posted by Sans Nom on January 27, 2000 at 11:45:29:
        
        .
  - Yes I have been there in the late 80s.(nt) Sans Nom 10:48:34 01/27/00 (0)
    .
  - P.S. Scott 10:15:24 01/27/00 (0)
    > > > For more info go to Shuguang factory in South-Eastern part of China and go check it out yourself < < <
    Have you been there?

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