Tubes Asylum

• Re: Jolida 302b tube rolling - kbuzz 09:24:27 08/31/04 (0)
  In Reply to: Jolida 302b tube rolling posted by twisty on August 28, 2004 at 14:56:53:

  I used the brimar pre's with the svetlana power on my 502a a few years ago with good results. I can only guess in your case but my gut instinct given the above limited facts is agreement that the bw tweeter may be source of your problem. Having wasted a lot of money over the years there are certain speakers ive never liked in the highs. Too detailed, too audiophile, too etched. This is particuarly true for me with the bw and thieles.

  You could be falling into this catagory. I will also note this- i tube rolled like mad to get the highs right in my system. Could never get it right,. Finally realzed it was my speakers and i sold my coincident partials.

  What i would suggest is see if you can borrow some other speakers from a dealer or friend before tube rolling again.
  
  

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• Re: Jolida 302b tube rolling - danlaudionut 12:42:09 08/29/04 (2)
  In Reply to: Jolida 302b tube rolling posted by twisty on August 28, 2004 at 14:56:53:

  Twisty

  You probably don't want to hear this
  but the truth sometimes hurts :^(

  The brightness isn't from the amp
  it's from the B&W 602's.
  Attack the brightness at the place that
  is creating it in the first place.

  You are trying to tame the brightness
  of the speakers by dulling the highs,
  don't be suprised when
  it dulls other frequencies too.
  I love the B&W's kevlar drivers too,
  but couldn't stand their tweeters.

  I recommend new speakers to get any further
  toward your quest for sonic nirvana.
  Something with a "quality" soft dome tweeter
  would cure the problem, would also help with
  the "ZERO brightness, zero fatigue" factor.
  Also adds to the "midrange magic" factor.

  I have Totem Arro's with a 3/4" tweeter
  for that reason, fast and extended.
  Powered with a Jolida 202 too.
  [RCA 6072, GE 12BH7, VA EL34]
  I had a JD-100 too, but didn't like the
  aggressive/forward soundstage.
  Went to a Sonic Frontiers SFT-1/SFD-1MkII,
  for a laidback,wider & deeper sound stage.

  YMMV & FWIW & JMHO etc...

  Enjoy
  DanL
  
  
  

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  • I hope it's the speakers! - twisty 15:56:33 08/29/04 (1)
    In Reply to: Re: Jolida 302b tube rolling posted by danlaudionut on August 29, 2004 at 12:42:09:

    I plan on replacing them anyway. I got them cheap and they serve the purpose of producing sound while I save up for something satisfactory (Spendor, Harbeth, Proac, Meadowlark, Quad, and Vandersteen is my current hit list). I'll take a look at the Totem's also, I've heard good about them before and they fit in the vein I'm looking for.

    Question: Do the oft-praised Mullards create their effects by "dulling the highs... other frequencies too" (as you put it)???

    After mixing and matching a bit, I'm somewhat pleased with:
    Svetlana EL34 (power)
    Mullard 12AX7 (pre)
    EH 12AT7 (driver)

    This is satisfactory (for now at least) because it's 'down the middle'. Moderately smooth, moderately detailed. Only slightly bright (probably the speakers play a role here). Very good midrange. In general: good, but far from great. I'll probably stick with this for a while ('till after I replace the speakers). Might replace the EH 12AT7's with similair-but-higher-quality. The Mullards just made everything too smooth.

    Thanks.
    
    

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    • Re: I hope it's the speakers! - danlaudionut 22:34:53 08/29/04 (0)
      In Reply to: I hope it's the speakers! posted by twisty on August 29, 2004 at 15:56:33:

      Twisty

      "Spendor, Harbeth, Proac, Meadowlark, Quad,
      and Vandersteen is my current hit list"

      I always liked Proac designs,
      but never heard them.
      Don't go with Quad because the 302 can't
      supply enough current to drive them -
      need at least PP KT88's for them.
      Meadowlark or Acoustic Energy are good -
      Acoustic Energy makes some Meadowlark speakers.
      No idea on the others.
      My dream is Silverline Sonata's 8^)

      "Do the oft-praised Mullards create their effects by "dulling
      the highs... other frequencies too" (as you put it)???"

      Yes to some extent, as well as Svetlanas.
      As do some circuits;
      NFB, cathode bias(unbypassed),
      CF and resistance loaded plates.
      As well as each stages Zo, local feedback
      and distance the signal has to travel
      all add to this level of "dulling".
      Used in the proper amount it's OK,
      even makes it more musical/textured.
      Too much and you have a Kenny G CD.

      What's the proper amount depends on the person.
      How much garlic is too much for spaghetti sauce?
      Everyone has to judge for themselves with their ears
      and in their own system - flavored to their liking.
      SET's have more of this and pentodes have almost none.
      Many in each camp have strong opinions on this
      and I will undoubtedly get some flames from this
      but from what I've heard - this is true.
      Finding the right balance between musical and detailed
      is a lifelong quest- not to be defined in this one post,
      nor by one person (even me) :^)

      Enjoy
      DanL
      
      
      
      

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• Try mixing the signal tubes (Mullard with EH/both combos)... - DeKay 16:31:20 08/28/04 (5)
  In Reply to: Jolida 302b tube rolling posted by twisty on August 28, 2004 at 14:56:53:

  If the SED's are like the Svetlana el34's being sold 3-4 years ago, then I've heard them in a 302 (liked them).

  
  
  

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  • Tried it. - twisty 18:17:02 08/28/04 (3)
    In Reply to: Try mixing the signal tubes (Mullard with EH/both combos)... posted by DeKay on August 28, 2004 at 16:31:20:

    So far both combinations seem to be 'the worst of both worlds'.
    EH 12at7's (driver) with Mullard 12ax7's (preamp) added brightness without improving detail or speed. The other way around weakened the midrange with only a small increase in detail. This was after only a brief tryout, with a room fan on hi to beat the heat. I'll retry tonight.
    
    

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    • Describe the Mullards you are using. If they are the mid 80's... - DeKay 23:23:03 08/28/04 (2)
      In Reply to: Tried it. posted by twisty on August 28, 2004 at 18:17:02:

      military dreck that hit the market a few years ago (some dealers are still stuck with/selling them) they are not @ all like the older versions, which are also hit and miss

      Also, never used a Mullard manufactured ecc81 (any vintage/version) that sounded half way decent in my gear.

      Best to ID what you are using, before moving on, IMO.

      
      
      

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      • Re: Describe the Mullards you are using. If they are the mid 80's... - twisty 23:51:56 08/28/04 (1)
        In Reply to: Describe the Mullards you are using. If they are the mid 80's... posted by DeKay on August 28, 2004 at 23:23:03:

        They're from Brent Jesse Recordings. I don't know much about the different Mullard's available, so I'll paste the description from Brent's site:

        New Old Stock in whiteboxes. Late 1960s vintage, made in Great Britain, some unlabeled; some for Bogen, Knight, Fisher, IEC Mullard, Amperex, Hammond Organ, Haltron, Tronal, GE and RCA. All are genuine Blackburn, UK Mullard factory made. These have that sweet Mullard sound at a lower price!

        The boxes are labeled '1969' and the price was about $100 per pair.
        
        

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        • Those are probably nice 12ax7's (I use similar/like ones... - DeKay 09:29:49 08/29/04 (0)
          In Reply to: Re: Describe the Mullards you are using. If they are the mid 80's... posted by twisty on August 28, 2004 at 23:51:56:

          for softer HF's). Thing is I'm not familiar with the EH's (or any other current production 12ax7's). Perhaps someone else will chime in on this?

          When I want a cleaner sound I use Amperex 12ax7's in one of my vintage integrated amps.

          There is one Mullard ecc81 I like as drivers in my 2A3 amps (forgot about them). They have Philips Mini Watt lablels with "B" codes (probably 70's production) and the sound is clean, but still full. I also use RCA black plate 6201's (similar to ecc81), but they may be too dark for your taste/setup. The 6201's are inexpensive.

          Maybe try searching "302" to see what combos people have liked in the Jolida?

          There is also a Jolida dealer who performs modifications (forget his moniker and he posts here) who may have some suggestions.

          It's been so long I can't remember the results of the various signal tubes I tried in a 302. Just recall that next to Mullard xf1's/xf2's I also liked the early Svetlana el34's.

          Even if they look clean you might also try polishing the pins on the tubes you currently have. Just did this to the tubes in a Pilot 232 and doing so definately cleaned up the sound.
          
          

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  • SED=Svetlana Electron Devices. Same tubes. nt - twisty 18:01:06 08/28/04 (0)
    In Reply to: Try mixing the signal tubes (Mullard with EH/both combos)... posted by DeKay on August 28, 2004 at 16:31:20:

    nt
    
    

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• Re: Jolida 302b tube rolling - Eclectic 15:33:42 08/28/04 (0)
  In Reply to: Jolida 302b tube rolling posted by twisty on August 28, 2004 at 14:56:53:

  Not familiar with the el34s but Tungsram does a great job in the small signal tubes. The new Groove Tubes Mullard copies are close to the Tungsram but not quite as detailed or quick,BUT you do have great mids and decent transparency.
  
  

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