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Hi all,
I have an Onkyo Integra DTR 5.3 with Axiom M80's in the front, Boston Acoustics VR950's in the rear and a Definitive tech sub. I'm also using an MMF5 TT with 1042 stylus and a rega phono stage. I kept hearing how tube amps are the way to go. I orderd an ASL Aq 1001. After waiting forever because ASL was redesigning thier amps. Or whatever. I got a AQ 1003 as a loaner. Well I have to say it didn't get much of a chance because it is not EQ'ed to my taste. I like a mid scooped type sound. I like to turn on the loudness button and turn the bass and treble almost all the way up. Well with the tube amps on the market you get no options. There is a volume control and thats it. The midrange on the ASL was way to out front for my taste. Plus there were a couple of glaring problems. The remote doesn't work if your more than 4 feet away. When I connect the sub out the volume drops way way off. Not just the bass but all volume. Why it's even there I don't know. I did hear a tube amp I liked but I have since set up my MMF5 properly and realized most of great tone I was hearing was from the turntable. I gota say My system sounds pretty dam good. Plus you give up all the bells and whistles. No fexibilty at all with new tube amps. It gets rediculously expensive when you start looking at real power (monoblocks pre amps ect). Is there somthing I am missing. Tell me what the difference is. Any recommendations on tube amps that are EQ'ed the way I like?
Follow Ups:
OK, I think I MAY know what's going on. If you are playing in a band and are used to hearing it loud, then boosting bass and treble to compensate for quieter levels at home may be needed to give you the same effect. The reason is that the sensitivity to bass, and to a lesser extent treble, decreases at lower listening levels (Fletcher-Munson effect), so that music sounds "thin" when played back at lower levels. If you look at vintage amps and receivers (1950's and 1960s), they had a loudness control to try to compensate for this, and that may be what you are doing using the bass and treble controls. They fell out of favor because the loudness control started at a fixed level which may or may not be appropriate for the amp and loudspeaker combination involved.Another possibility, if you are playing in a band which plays loud without hearing protection, you may actually have hearing loss - this is fairly common, and if you haven't had your hearing checked, you should (see an ENT doc). A number of rock musicians have had hearing loss from loud music due to lack of ear protection. One sign of this would be ringing in the ears. Since high frequency loss usually occurs first, another sign would be problems understanding speech, especially differentiating between say, d and t or b and p sounds. The "treatment" of this would involve wearing hearing protection and listening to music at lower levels.
In any case, if you like the "tone" of tube amps, you may want to look into getting a vintage amp or receiver, which has both tone controls and a loudness control. The only problem is that they generally are low power and may not generate the loudness you prefer.
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vintage&n=8353&highlight=fisher&session=
True audiophile don't want tone contols bass, treble they want to be able to produce the recording as close to the original as possible, If you have the right equipment preamp,cdp,amp,speakers you
won't need tone controls. Your comments reminds me of the guys going down the street in their cars with the volume on the audiovox cd player to the max. They think their the shit with the car vibrating, but most of the time it just the sound of distortion from over driven amps and speakers
To each his own. It's all good as they say. I don't know what a true adiophile is. Depends on you tastes and what kind of music you like. Audiophile on baby.
What a lie.
I have heard many things that weren't good.
music(so loud that it damages the person's hearing
permenantly), language(offensive, hateful and abusive)
and even opinions(communism, socialism, racism, etc)
I hate that saying - as you can tell.
Enough Philosophy :^)IMO (In my Opinion)
A "true audiophile" is one who likes
to have his musical reproduction sound
*to himself* like the original sound made
when it was recorded.
Each instrument sounds convincingly like
what that instrument sounds like live.
The "You are there" or "They are here" illusion.
It has nothing to do with the kind of music.The "Purist" doesn't like tone controls or EQ's
because they introduce phase irregularities.
Every amp has these, but the better ones
keep them above or below the audible range.
The further away the better.
These phasings destroy any chance of the
afore mentioned "you are there" experience.There is another point that seems to be glossed over,
probably due to the fact it has to do with speakers.
(I know this is heresy on the Tube Asylum)
If there is a volume where you like the sound
without contouring them, then it probably is because
your speaker doesn't reproduce well at low volumes.
Many less expensive drivers have a small range
of optimum performance in volume.
Too low a volume and they are not recieving enough
power to drive their diaphram and too loud makes them
go into dynamic compression or over excursion.
This has to do with their magnets and voice coil design.
The loudness button/control was originally designed
to overcome the poor magnets of that era.
I would recommend trying another pair of speakers-
hopefully a premium brand of your choice or
replacing your midrange driver.DanL
I don't think that is ss vs tube issue. It is your taste as you mention. My daughter like to boost the bass to +6db and treble to +6db in the car and that gave me headache. Luckily all my home audio do not have tone control except her own boom box in her room.I think You need an amp that has tone control.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc.
I just read with astonishment what you do to the original signal.
Not only should you avoid tubes - you should not even use words with the letter T in them.
LOL You "signal path" people crack me up. You know I could respect your opinion. But you people seem to have issues. Kind of like anything that isn't pure "signal path" is wrong wrong. And you must make sure everyone adheres to these rules. Give me a break. I could see your argument if you listen to nothing but non amplified music. But even there I doubt it sounds just like being there. Somthing changed through the microfones, wire, recording device and so on. Now when you get into studio recorded stuff... You arent getting anything close to pure "signal path". They do so many tricks and tweeks in the studio it's unbelievable. I say if it sounds good do it. You guys need a laxative. Get that stick outa your ass. Music is about creativity. Pink noise is not achieved by adhering to strict rules of "signal path". And why is it assosiated with "tubes"? Signal path is signal path right? Do you listen to only albums that adhere to the "signal path" rule. I doubt it.
There is nothing we can do about the recording, but that doesn't mean we want to mess it up more.
Some recordings are real good, some aren't. If we were to answer your question with 'yes, tubes are better' there has to be a better to start with. Better to me has always meant 'the system that messes up the signal the least', leaving as much of the orignal as it can.Tre'
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still working the problem"
Thanks for the reply. I can respect that opinion. I don't think I have the money to go that rout though.
you have already bought, hence made the choice. Good for you that you didn't buy something too good so you may just escape by deciding it sounds like crap. But if you like the sound....maybe buy some different tubes to improve it a bit.....next a few cap upgrades....and before you know it you are...well like whitey ford said,"But he's from the solid state school
And he's nervous with the tubes
So he ends up on his back in a bloody pool"Don't say we didn't warn ya! Something about glowing stuff inside glass. A taste of the poor stuff might not get ya. But if you keep on cooking and get a hankering for the pure signal nothing else will do.
Russ
P.S. Yes I am crazy...why else would I be in an asylum?....I think youse gots to be crazy to be here if youse aint crazy.
LOL. Well thanks. We will see how it goes. I have a feeling I'm going to like this amp.
First of all, your ranting is counter productive, and bespeaks a genuine insecurity about your position.
Perhaps you should take the final step and crank the gain to maximum to approximate the sustain of a pre CBS Fender Dual Showman.
Kidding aside,your original question was are tubes all that, and given your stated application, probably not.
I don't have insecurity about my position. I'm just trying to gather information. I gues I have a thing about people who don't give real information but answer questions with sarcasm or ridles. My boss is like that and I hate him. I'm kind of curious why you chose to make the statement you did. Did you think it was funny?
I thought your agressive comments to several people below who were making good faith efforts to help was inappropriate.
I also reiterate the way you choose to use this equipment will make any benefits from tubes nil. So why bother?
Oh, and yes, it was funny.
We shall see how it goes. I have nothing to lose except money LOL.
Hello SirAnthony;Later in this thread I noted that you stated that you liked to listen to your music at very loud levels. One thought is that you could be overdriving the midranges to the point that they're compressing (most home speakers are not really designed to be played LOUD the way that musical instrument speakers are, and no-where is this truer than midranges; distortion can be VERY noticeable when these are over-driven).
Here's the question though - just how loud is "loud" to you? Have you ever measured the 'C' weighted peak and average SPL's at your listening position, and if so, what were they?
What I'm getting at is not meant as a slam or snobbery; it's just that I've seen a number of young people over the decades trash their hearing by playing their music LOUD - and musicians seem to be very prone to this.
The experiment you might want to try is to take a piece of music and turn it to a "satisfying level", then measure it and record it. On some day off a week or two later, go with silence and read a book. No music, no TV, no telephone (turn off the ringer), no conversation, no power tools, no vacuum cleaner, no carpentry, no "anything that makes noise" that day, period. It's one day of silence and rest. Then in the evening turn on the same piece of music very softly so you can barely hear it - and VERY VERY SLOWLY bring it up until it's "satisfying" (DO NOT LOOK AT THE VOLUME CONTROL OR ALTER THE VOLUME LEVEL AS YOU'RE ADJUSTING IT - JUST BRING IT UP TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S "SATISFYING" BY EAR AND LEAVE IT BE). Once it's "satisfying" to you, measure it's peak and average "C" weighted SPL's and record them.
Compare the 2 levels and see if they are the same.
At worst, you'll have had a one day 'stress break' (which everyone could use in this insane, high-stress society). At best, you'll notice an interesting effect as regards sound perception based on environmental levels of noise and stress. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
Good luck and all the best,
Morse
Oops, sorry everyone!I meant to type
> > > ...DO NOT LOOK AT THE VOLUME CONTROL OR ALTER THE VOLUME LEVEL BY EYE AS YOU'RE ADJUSTING IT... < < <
rather than
> > > ...DO NOT LOOK AT THE VOLUME CONTROL OR ALTER THE VOLUME LEVEL AS YOU'RE ADJUSTING IT... < < <
Please accept my apologies for the blunder!
Morse
Thanks for the suggestion. But I don't listen to loud music every day. It's usually once or occasionally twice a week that I have a few drinks and crank it up. When I mentioned rock being played loud it was in the context of how you would change your tone when playing loudly with other musicians. I don't even turn my car stereo up that loud any more as I want to save those times for when I enjoy it more.
Hi SirAnthony;Glad to read that you're not listening to super high SPL's day in and day out. That's a sure way to become a deaf music lover in short order.
One other thought on changes in tone are that the ear's response curve is NOT linear with respect to signal amplitude. Thus you could be encountering this as well if you change from low volume listening to high volume listening (though IIRC, the ear is most sensitive to midrange at all volume levels, whereas it's less sensitive to low amplitude bass and treble information, which was the whole reason behind the 'loudness control' in the first place). Only careful listening on your part, with comparison to both high and low SPL sounds can really tell the tale of what you're actually perceiving though.
Hope the Fisher works out better for you. Good luck
All the best,
Morse
What you say is true. You do percieve sound differently at different volumes. At louder volumes you can scale back the treble and bass. I usually hit a sweet spot where I can hear eveything to my taste and have the bass kick me in the chest. That's how I like it. Turning it up any louder at that point turns it into mush. It takes self control LOL.
Waht do you guys think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3087120732&category=50593Hope it wasn't a stupid move. Impulse buying. Tax return and all LOL.
Pretty good deal, around 25 watts per channel, I'm interested in how those Axioms will sound with it. The biasing is easy just follow the directions and be careful with the probe tips. Get a schematic too. You can then take voltages off the tube pins to make sure everything is spec.
All tests done with speakers hooked up and volume down all the way.Once you have it checked and running you can swap those smaller front tubes to change the tone of the amp. Try some JJ's, they are ECC83. The expensive Telefunkens are more laid back where you like it. IMO the JJ's sound the best, brighter and more up front.
Email me any questions and I'de be glad to help you.
Looks like the seller used a dremel and buffed all the rust off the chassis leaving buffing marks. Try "Mothers" mag and aluminum polish from the auto store. real light pressure. This makes these chassis shine like chrome.
If you can solder it's fun and rewarding to change out a few things. It can give you confidence in using the amp too especially since you will be cranking her up. I don't get past 12 O'clock but suspect I would on my Fathers Axioms. Keep us updated
Cheers
Thanks for the encouragment. I will keep you updated when I get it.
Well it looks cool. This stuff is well before my time but that thing looks like a beast. Under $200.00? I know Fisher tubes are pretty popular.
Cool. Go for it man. Most early Fisher gear is solid, nice sounding stuff - Not trying to be cynical and p**s in your cherrios here, but going by your posts here and concluding that you like loud rockin' music - i think the Fisher integrated you just picked up has fairly low power? I have a 24 watt 6BQ5/EL84 based amp, that is prob. a tiny bit weaker with a few hum quieting mods and it plays beautifully - It does justice to material meant to be cranked (e.g. Old Stones, Clash, Sabbath, etc.), but it really isn't in its element with this stuff. Just wondering if a vintage amp with more juice would've been more to you liking -- You'll be pleased with its musicality i bet -- Just be careful -- i only got into vintage stuff recently and it's become as addicting as potato chips ;-)good luck with it -- marc
Well it was a kind of spur of the moment thing. I had heard the Fisher 100's were good. I saw it there with 6 minutes left and said what the hey and bid on it. And I won it. Only $200 do I don't think I can go wrong if it works. I can at least see what everyone is talking about with tubes. What is the powerful classic tube stuff to get?
..I think it would be a completely reasonable and much answered post over in Vintage.Off the top of my still mostly newbie head -- Perhaps a Scott 299, Dynaco ST70, Eico HF81 (integrated) -- all quite popular --
HK Citation stuff comes to mind, other Fisher gear (e.g. x-202-b), plenty of other gear as your guy is kinda on the leaner side -- it should sound sweet and detailed though. Some guys swear by certain tubes or manner of circuitry -- I still think you did okay though - Fisher is nice stuff.
Have fun with it over in vintage -- nice bunch of guys who like to help out a newly interested party.
cheers, marc
nt
Forget the JJ/Tesla with lousy 1200gm & unbalanced sonics when NOS tubes are the design standard of 1600gm. Start out with NOS RCA 12AX7s or Mullard 12AX7s. Your new amp may already have quality tubes.Have fun.
I give you credit. No matter how it turns out at least you do actually try this stuff out at home...even buy it. You are giving different amps a try.SO if you don't like it and prefer SS at least you can actually have an educated opinion.
I'm not a supporter of either design I am a supporter of good sound. Often Tubes need certain speakers to sound their best and that would be my only caution when tube amp hunting.
But many people like the Bryston sound and like it or leave it What Bryston does for the money can't be beat. Gobs of tight articulat bass and power with a prestine low noise floor with specs that are unvelievably good. Yet there are tube amps I prefer.
I don't have time to respond to everyone. But thanks. There is some good info here that I will look into. I'm thinking looking into some classic Fisher stuff might be the way to go. And it won't break the back either.
Sounds like that unit is defective. The volume should not change with the sub out connected (it's just an rca line out right? not binding posts?) My father has those Axioms and they are pretty power hungry Even though rated efficient. What is the amp rated at?
I have also questioned the lack of tone controls but now with 6 tube units I rarely use them. Maybe some bass late at night when I turn the sub off. I think because my speakers are very well matched to each unit. 6 different sets.You could go with a Vintage pre amp, I love the Mac MX110 because you get a trube tuner and preamp all in one ($750-1000) and some vintage EL34 mono blocks or 2 some dynaco st70's running mono. ($1500)
Many optionsWhat can you spend?
Sorry I don't know anything about the amp you are talking about but do not give up on tubes especially if you have a good ear.
Matching components is key, I have a few sets of speakers here that sound like crap with tubes.I feel like my Fathers are hungry and that will take some the the dynamics away, although at 91db efficiency you should be OK. I'm gonna take my fisher 400 over his house someday and report back.
Bottom line, keep experimenting, don't give up.
Or there might be a switch to make it 4ohms. The sub out should have no effect.
The ASL has both 8 and 4 ohm connections. But thanks.
How much degredation does a good anolog equalizer really add when put in the signal path?
Is your listening area quite spacious? Maybe a tighter room would be better for your preferences - that and placing your speaks closer to the floor and walls. I am not familiar with Axioms, but BAs are generally a pretty laid back, linear type speaker -- perhaps you prefer a more "boomy" speaker - most JBLs/Cerwin Vega type speaks come to mind. Your phono cartridge is also a big part of the sound of your phono stage. In the States, i'd say that you were a Grado customer -- more warm, colored sounding phono stage. Sure there are a few different types of carts you could look for. As said here, you may want to play with an EQ if you really want to taper the sound.
Don't be upset by the "snobs" who are critical when you mention that you like bassier, more colored sound -- you will get that here as the mantra in any critical audio discussion is almost always "let the music sound as much like it was performed" -- and hopefully the recordings we listen to, do justice to that recording and the system "has no colorations at all".But different strokes and all that.. you like what you like - your just gonna have to sift through posts here carefully as the "default" responses most give is assuming you prefer tonal neutrality.
I think you would be a good candidate for vintage equipment -- if you love the tonal qualities of a good tube-based guitar amp -- as someone posted here and as you'll hear many times - most vintage gear, with it's stock parts, was designed when a more "warm and tubey" sound was desired -- with rolled off extreme highs and lows - and having a sweet, warm detailed midrange - this, of course is a generalization.
For those of us who prefer a neutral presentation with a bit of warmth, sweetness and some substantial bass when called for, tubes, capacitors and a few other parts/elements of the gear can be tweaked to give the older gear a fantasic overall sound and there are speaker systems and things that can be done to really open up the bottom end of your system if thats what you prefer. Only saying all this because i believe (whether i'm correct or not remains to be seen), that those may not be the overiding characteristics of "new" tube gear. As a poster said here earlier, while tubes can provide some tone and warmth, if it's a new design, it's going to be aiming for a very neutral presentation - hence, i think a bit of your disappointment with "tube gear".
Don't know anything about current production gear, but my Fisher 500 mono receiver has exactly the characteristics you want. It uses 2xEL37 Mullards in pentode mode and is rated 25W. It has integrated phono equalized preamp so you won't need a separate unit. I use a pair of them with Yamaha PX-3 linear track table and Shure V15IIIMR cart. It is sweetest and yet most neutral combination I've ever heard. Midrange is exceptional if that's what you want. It has separate treble and bass controls; both provide deep regulation - there is nothing like this in modern amps. Loudness switch is also there.The key to the great sound of Fisher 500 is NOS Mullard output tubes. 6L6 or any other replacement does not work as well.
You can have a pair of them with restoration and new tubes for less than $1,000.
Cheers,
If you want to shape the sound then buy a equalizer.
Confusion reigns. Pick one or the other pairs of speakers and go strictly 2 channel. Especially to begin with. Add rear speakers if you must, only once the front ones are dialed in.> > Well with the tube amps on the market you get no options
==I get restless listening too, I found it took buying more music and relaxing helped, beverage maybe.
> > . I like to turn on the loudness button and turn the bass and treble almost all the way up.
==Pets can relieve stress, simple excersise helps here. Good circulation means the ears are working better, and the brain appreciates this.
> > No fexibilty at all with new tube amps. It gets rediculously expensive when you start looking at real power (monoblocks pre amps ect). Is there somthing I am missing. Tell me what the difference is. Any recommendations on tube amps that are EQ'ed the way I like?
==Forget power first. 2 watt amps beat up kilowatt sand amps. Power has you delerious.
Your room is the first place to look to improve. Push the speakers 6" back. When you change a piece of gear as in this case, speaker position should be re-evaluated. Excess midrange energy can be dealt with by the 6" you move the speakers back to gain midbass. Carefull though, you'll flaten that image if you move too fast.
TC
'NT' means 'No Text' (I think). In otherwords, there is a 'subjcet' to the reply but no text in the body of the reply.Two points: I agree with you with regard to tone circuits. It's a lot less expensive to 'play' with the tone controls then to 'roll' expensive tubes or buy incredibly overpriced cables (but we ar not supposed to talk about cables on this forum ...). It is interesting to me that most 'old' tubed preamps (designed in the 60's) had tone controls (bass, treble, balance, and yes, 'loudness') and the 'new' way is to have none. In fact, most old preamps had 'scratch' filters that rolled off the high frequency response and 'rumble' filters that rolled off the low frequency response. Your were left with the mids ...
Taste is another thing - I do have tone controls on my tubed preamp (headphone) that allow me to boost/cut the high and low end in precise 3 dB steps. All that design work was a bit of a waste, since I always set the tone controls to provide 9 dB of bass boost and 3 dB of treble boost. Which, as you pointed out, sucks out the mids a bit.
Any way, don't be discouraged about tubed equipment. Perhaps you can fine an old tubed preamp with tone controls on Ebay.
NT means NT
Huh. I'm new. Whats NT
.
Given your comments I would venture a guess that tubes aren't for you. At least not for a power amp. You might like a CD player with a tube output stage though. But no, tubes are more for the purist at heart who feels that anything extra, such as tone controls, are simply "in the way of the music". As such a real tube fanatic would rather not listen to a poor quality recording. If it must have tone controls cranked to sound right then get a different record! This is not a snob thing, just a point of view and we know we are strange and different:)Russ
Actually as a guitar player I wouldn't be caught playing a SS amp. Tube guitar amps have the tone, sustain. They just feel right when you play them. I can see how a tube stereo could have that same warmth. It's just finding one that I like. There aren't many dealers here so it may be difficult.
Solid-state can produce a large soundstage, but sounds like a compressed & processed signal to me. Grainy with minimal space in the soundstage between the instruments & voices.On the tube side, empty space is in between the instruments & voices without any smearing. Soundstage is same size as solid-state, but more 3D for lack of a better word. The midrange has better resolution to the point I can hear details simply covered up in solid-state. The program is delivered without effort & produces no fatigue after hours of listening. Further, my highly modified tube type FM tuner played thru my tube amp can at times fool me if I am in another room with an unknown announcer. I get caught off guard and think a stranger is in the house (for a split second). Solid-state has never fooled my ears like that. So, with the proper system, the performance sounds live & that is what really counts.
However with all of the above, many tubes were auditioned to get that performance & my Scan-Speak speakers simply match up very well to the amplifier. I know this through many years of experience & also trying my Seas Excel speakers (not junk by any means).
As for sanity? With tubes I have none. I am a tube nut.
You say you like a tube guitar amp in part because of the tone. All good and fine.Now lets pretend that you made a commercial CD with you as the guitar player and of course you used your tube guitar amp. Does that then mean when you played that CD at your house for it to sound the same as it did on stage you would have to crank up the treble and bass and loudness controls? If so why? I mean if you had no tone controls shouldn't it sound the way you played it on stage? In short with no tone controls shouldn't it sound the way you, the artist, intended it to sound? Help me out here cuz I am not getting something.
Us tube snobs are only interested in getting out what was put onto the CD in the first place. If the artist sets his amp up for crap sound then we find another artist who sounds right. We don't look for tone controls to make his music sound the way we think it should sound. Does this make sense to you?
Russ
Ok, this won't be a perfect answer but here goes. First I probably do like a contoured sound because thats what I've always listened to. It's just what I like for whatever reason. Second thing is I listen to mostly all differen't kinds of rock. From the 60's on up to today. All differen't styles from jazzy to pop to alternative to metal. Rock is usually played loud. I have found as a guitar player when I am playing loud with other musicians I have to set my tone differently. When playing at home at low volume I set my tone to a scooped sound. With sparkling highs and lows that shake the walls. This is alot of fun to play. It feels powerful. But live at high volume that does not work. You get lost in the mix. You can't hear yourself play. So you have to have the midrange pushed out so you cut through the mix. There is no right way. You do what sounds good in a given situation.
Hey Russ. To be fair, tubes aren't really for "purists" (subjective definition that will differ from context to context). The bottom line is tubes are tone control.
Many if not all intregrated vacuum tube amps have tone controls & many have loudness controls. I prefer some bass boost using my FM tuner on some stations. I also prefer some additional treble at times, but never cared for the loudness control. I really need to replace the 7-ohm series resistor to 4-ohm in my speaker tweeter circuit. The tweeters simply broke-in & are somewhat more laid back.Your speakers may be the reason your equipment requires the settings you mentioned. As for scouped out mids, some Fender guitar amps are designed that way. That may explain some of your listening preferences.
As for tube amps, I never found a solid-state amp that performs as well as the tube type amps. Tubes seem to ultra perform in the midrange & perhaps your listening lacking that defined & accurate midrange makes for your listening peference to solid-state amps.
If you like to listen to music with the loudness on, treble and bass turned way up, I dare say you are listening to some very odd sounding tunes, especially if they were good recordings once upon a time. There may be something terribly wrong with your hearing (I hope not, however).Perhaps you should give up on tube audio gear and install an entire 12-volt car audio system in your living room with subwoofers and 1500 watt amps. It will sound perfect!
You must be one of those tube snobs. Thanks for the usefull advice. I know you are superior to me in every way. I bow to your supirior hearing and taste. I know the way you hear things is the only good way. Thank you for showing me the light. I'll get right on that 12 volt stereo. But where do I keep the battery?Actually I feel the opposite. That you must be deaf in the midrange. To much midrange hurts my ears. But I know you are better so I'll leave it at that.
You should go and listen to some live, unamplified music.
Turning the loudness control on and the bass and treble up can sound fun and exciting, but I doubt if it sound very realistic.
But if that's what you like...Tre'
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still working the problem"
I'm sure TH was serious, and was just trying to toss a little humor in there with his answer. Given the system you list and the way you use it, I agree with TH about the hearing check, especially the "to much midrange hurts my ears". Personal preference is everything, but being a "tube snob", what do we know.
Matthew
Default Signature Line
Hey my hearing probably isn't perfect. After being in a band and all. Thank god I started wearing ear plugs before I did too much damage. But I have always liked this sound since I was a kid. I understand a joke but equating my system to putting together a cheap car stereo and that I need to see a doctor beause I like tone controls is insulting.
about a cheap car stereo? It seems to me that an expensive 12 volt system installed in the proper room would sound awesome. It's probably not at all what you want, and I respect that. But the idea sort of has me intrigued.
It probably would sound decent. From what I've heard though most car stereos are outsourced and all pretty much have about the same quality. They just have different belles and whistles.
Tube rolling (trying different tubes) is a form of tone control, but I'm guessing it will still not satisfy your tastes for contoured sound. Buy an equalizer if you really want to sculpt your sound and don't mind the degradation of the signal path (which from what I can infer you probably don't). If that doesn't work, simply stick to mid-fi gear with built in tone controls (virtually no high fidelity gear - solid state or tube - has built-in tone controls or "bells and whistles"). Your preferences probably don't conform to those audiophiles generally regard as ideal. There's nothing wrong with that. Pick the sound that satisfies you. Tubes (or high fidelity) may not be it.BTW, the volume control and diminished volume with a sub connected is not a hallmark of tube design. Your unit may be defective.
Thanks for the reply. Actually I did pull some tubes from my guitar amp that I know sound good. It did make a big difference but like you said it's still not the way I like it. I am a musician. I have been told by a sound tech that I have a very good ear. I just have different tastes. My first stereo when I was a kid had a loadness control and I have always been atracted to that sound. My Integra doesn't have a loudness control but I can still get it to sound the way I want. Also my tube guitar amps sound great and they have lots of knobs to get it to sound the way I want. Some of the music you may be listening to is played with knobs that interfere with the "signal path". I'm sure there is or was a tube amp that sounded good with more than one control on it.
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